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Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?

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John Davidson
Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 10, 2011 at 1:40:07 am

Anybody seen one online yet? Aside from that first guy that got his, I've seen no other footage thus far.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 11, 2011 at 12:20:18 am

I just got off a mixed Alexa and Epic shoot (mostly Akexa, Epic for very specific shots, mostly 120 fps. Alexa hadnt been upgraded to SUP V5). The Scarlet, workflow wise, is the pretty much the same as Epic. Just know what you're getting in to.

There are many choices and it boils down to money (real cost, not just the body), time and your particular needs.

The good thing is, there's lots of pretty good choices out there.

Awesome food for thought in here:

http://philipbloom.net/2011/11/20/scarlet/

http://prolost.com/blog/2011/11/21/red-scarlet-canon-c300-and-the-paradox-o...

http://philipbloom.net/2011/12/10/nomoreepic/

Jeremy


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Graeme Nattress
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 12, 2011 at 4:33:34 pm

There's quite a few Scarlets out now - I suspect that the users are just busy shooting.

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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John Davidson
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 1:40:39 am

Thanks. They need to stop being so stingy with the footage!

I read the Phillip Bloom stuff, which is almost a turn off for the Scarlet. That said, coming from a 7D workflow (and previously the HVX200), is there a major difference in shooting RED vs the other file based camera types? We shoot, offload the card, shoot some more. Our shoots are mostly quick clips for spots, so I'm not going to be recording a 2 hr interview or anything like that. I think that a Scarlet with a 7D as a backup would be pretty fantastic for our needs, but maybe I'm wrong?

j

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 1:43:26 am

Just know what you are going to get in to. It's significantly different than a 5D workflow.

What's your planned post workflow, or are you not that far down the road yet?


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John Davidson
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 1:58:52 am

Well, we'd probably convert to ProRes HQ and work in 1080p exclusively. When needed we could step into the raw format and get some higher resolution footage for whatever power shots we'd need to work. For much of our work it would be overkill, but I can't imagine it's that insanely different from other file based formats.

I'm mostly really excited about working in a format that allows some serious compositing and grading abilities. if we can get some higher frame rates, even if it's slightly less that 720p, well that's just great too.

So yes, we're not that far down the road yet :).

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 2:07:24 am

What NLE software are you using?


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John Davidson
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 2:08:50 am

FCP7.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 3:21:50 am

Ok. The Red is a significant step up in quality of DSLR. The red system is very cool and unique. It allows great flexibility, with that there is added responsibility as well.

First, just know that yes, it's a file based camera, but it operates differently.

You will have to transcode everything before you start working, just like a 5D and fcp7.

This takes significant amounts of time, unless you have a red rocket. Transcode times on a Xeon 8 core are running us about 10:1, 1 minute of raw footage takes 10 minutes to transcode. If we worked with Red all the time, a rocket would be a no brainer.

When transcoding, you will have to bake in a "look". There are many ways to accomplish this giving you finishing options. You can render out a rather normal looking image for later reconnection to raw, you can render out a flat log image (for later grading, but you'd need an intermediate color correction for previews. As far as I know, there is no proper "RedLogFilm to video" filter for fcp as there are for other cameras), or you can choose somewhere in between (a rather normal looking, semi flat image for later grading), among a few others. If not using the RedLogFilm or flat gamma method, you will need to consider an online of the red footage.

Scarlet files won't work in Color, so you won't be able to connect from the raw in Color, which is a bummer.

You will need to spend some dough in both SSD cards and batteries. The Epic we used last week was getting about 20ish minutes on a single redvolt, Scarlet will probably fare a bit better, but I bet it's not by much. The batteries take 2.5 hours to charge. We also had other battery power systems on set, but it adds to the overall bulk and weight. This alone, makes shooting with Scarlet much different than a 5D. If you get the scarlet package, just know that the $14,000 you just spent will get you less than an hour of run time, and about 25-30 minutes of record time. When I say run time, I mean the camera is simply powered on.

I don't want to scare you, or steer you away, I just want to tell you there's real life considerations to be made when using any high end camera. I hope you understand that the Scarlet is a different camera than a DSLR. It offers exceptional quality, but you have to know that it's not a point and shoot. The raw workflow offers a ton of flexibility, which is a good thing, but you have to know how to leverage it so that it fits your needs and workflow speed. It's not hard, or difficult, it just takes some ironing out.

You can also consider a proxy workflow with something like the KiPro mini, but that also means you need to take the extra power, weight, recording medium, and cost in to account.

As far as the offspeed, and I am just being honest here, the higher the frame rate, the noisier and soft the footage is. We did some Epic 300 fps test for a recent commercial shoot, and while the motion looked totally awesome, the footage was really grainy, and noisy. We settled on 4k HD 120fps on the Epic. Since the sensor is windowed, it's the equivalent of scaling your footage. The notes on the Epic say the footage is "2k", but really , it's 2048x854. This means to fill a 1080 frame, we have to scale footage up considerably. So now the already compromised high frame rate images, need even more scaling to fill a 16x9 1080 frame. This is even worse on 120 fps scarlet footage, which is "1k" (1024x540).

That being said, Red constantly releases firmware updates that improve performance, the raw color system is truly exceptional, and when used for its true 4k potential, the images are outstanding.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 4:36:31 am

Just found redlogfilm to video filter, as well as Color LUT.

http://www.antlerpost.com/Plugins.html

I think these might be 8bit renders only.

Jeremy


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Tony Segreto
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 5:58:25 am

You'll want to grade your RED footage in REDCINEX instead of Color. RCX is a free download from Red.com and it will allow you to push your grade way further with less information loss. Really the power of shooting in 4k and in RAW is the ability to manipulate it in post. If you download the footage, and immediately transcode to ProRes, or record footage using a Keypro, your really missing out on a lot of the power that RED 4k and RAW gives you.

I also ordered a Scarlet and am looking forward to the reframing/post abilities. I've been working with Red Ones and Epics for a while but always rented.

2c

Cheers,
Tony

http://www.VigilanteHD.com - New York Video Production


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John Davidson
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 11:12:48 am

Great info. Congrats! What's the delivery timeframe for your new scarlet?

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 12:57:25 pm

RCX is great software. You are going to want a rocket if using RCX for grading to get video out to a monitor.

I'd also recommend Resolve if you have black magic hardware.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 13, 2011 at 5:09:44 pm

Just to give you an idea.

Last night, I processed 95,371 frames of 4K HD Epic footage (which is probably the format you will shoot on a scarlet for normal speed work) which is about 66 minutes of 23.976 footage to 1080 ProRes LT files for offline using RCXPro Beta v8.

It took a little 13 hours on an 8 core 2.93 GHz MacPro.

So that is about 13:1, 13 hours for one hour of footage. We don't have a Rocket.

The footage looks great.

Jeremy


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John Davidson
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 14, 2011 at 12:07:17 am

This is all great food for thought. I honestly hope we shoot on it enough to have a need for the rocket. If we make this purchase it'll probably be Jan or Feb. I do want to see some hands on reviews of the camera before I jump in. The difficulties don't seem so insurmountable that we can't learn it.
Thanks guys!

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Red Scarlet - where are the hands on reviews?
on Dec 14, 2011 at 12:10:43 am

[John Davidson] "The difficulties don't seem so insurmountable that we can't learn it. "

Like I said, it's not hard or difficult, but there are considerations when moving from a DSLR background.

By the way: http://tonacitran.com/red-scarlet-x-first-review-impressions/

jeremy


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