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RED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.

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Richard Naylor
RED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.
on Oct 11, 2011 at 5:48:50 pm

Hello!

I just shot a short film on RED ONE (approx 25. mins.) Likely to master 1080, be submitted to festivals.

It's come time to edit and I have been told different things by different people. My DOP has told me to quarter res the r3d files using RedRushes, do an offline edit, then reconnect to the F proxy. Then export as whatever I want.

I have also been told that's not necessary and I should just transcode the r3d files to half debayer HD 422 HQ files and leave it as that.

Trouble is, regardless of which route I go down - Red Rushes doesn't seem to work. It just whizzes through the clips going straight to 100% and producing no clip.

Red Cine X on the other hand creates a small letterbox effect at the top and bottom of the images. Red Alert doesn't seem to do this, but I can only render one clip at a time.

All in all I am a little confused and worried.

Would really appreciate any help!

best,

Richard


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Colin Hubick
Re: RED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.
on Oct 11, 2011 at 7:29:25 pm

Hi Richard, try using the latest version of Red's processing tools called RedCine-X Pro to process your footage. As well I would highly suggest processing full debayer, as you are throwing away almost half of your data by only doing a half debayer.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?40067-Thoughts-and-Tips.../page7


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Richard Naylor
Re: RED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.
on Oct 11, 2011 at 7:37:35 pm

Thanks for your reply.

So I'm guessing the scaling issue is because the DOP shot 2:1? (Just found this out).

What does Cine X Pro do to fix this scaling problem? Does it stretch the image?

Thanks

Rich


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Colin Hubick
Re: RED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.
on Oct 11, 2011 at 7:47:36 pm

it won't stretch the image, it will either crop off the sides to achieve 16:9 or the tops to achieve 2.35:1

Colin


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Richard Naylor
Re: ED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.
on Oct 11, 2011 at 8:49:21 pm

So is the fact he shot 2:1 a major error on his part?

How does his idea of transcoding r3d files to 720 then reconnecting to F proxy files sound?

Best

Rich


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Colin Hubick
Re: ED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.
on Oct 11, 2011 at 9:11:01 pm

So is the fact he shot 2:1 a major error on his part?

Not at all. Remember you are dealing with 4k resolution files, so the resolution is there to conform to whatever aspect you are intending to finish on. Remember film when we would shoot 4-perf or 3-perf? we would never use the entire image that was on the film, but always cropped to another aspect ratio like 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 BTW what is your intended final aspect ratio?

How does his idea of transcoding r3d files to 720 then reconnecting to F proxy files sound?

This is fine too, but the end aspect ratio is what is important at this stage. For example, if you intend on finishing at 1080p to HDCAMSR, then the "offline" 720p files should be created with the final aspect ratio in mind. The reason for this is if you did any scaling, pan and scan etc. The offline files and the final uprezed files need to be the same aspect ratio if you intend on these adjustments coming through correctly.

So far from what you have told me, everything is correct. The only confusion is the aspect ratio, which is a very common stumbling block. Especially when shot 2:1. 2:1 gives some other benefits in camera such as being able to use lower compression schemes in camera to get better quality, and only a marginal change in recording time.


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Richard Naylor
Re: ED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.
on Oct 11, 2011 at 9:29:44 pm

Thanks Colin for the reply. Has made me feel better.

Presumably I want to master in HD 16:9 - I want to submit to festivals and it's likely to only be screened at hd.

Does this mean when converting to 720, I need to match height which will trim the edges... Is this the best way of getting back to 16:9?

Once I have done my offline edit, and reconnected to my F proxies, do I then do the re framing? Sorry if these are stupid questions!

Really appreciate the help!


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Colin Hubick
Re: ED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.
on Oct 11, 2011 at 9:52:09 pm

There are a zillion ways to attack this, but here are two options that may work best for you.


1. Easiest option - Output all your footage into the format that you intend on finishing in. In your case 1080p 16:9. Use these clips as your masters and cut the film using these. While this is an easy option, it limits you more than going back and conforming from your RAW.

2. Harder option - Output all your clips as 720p 16:9 using the 1/4 res debayer. The offline clips will finish very quickly, and have an acceptable quality level for an offline. (I mean we used to do offline edits from DVCAM film transfers) so for most editors this may be acceptable.

Once you have completed the offline edit, then you can use a conform tool like RedCine-X, or Davinci to reconnect the offline EDL or XML to the RED RAW. This is trickier, but gets you back to the RAW for your master color pass. And remember Davinci Lite is free, supports a single Red Rocket card, but is limited to two color correction nodes. Please note, you are not re-connecting to the _F.mov proxy, but to the actual .r3d file(s).

I've used both methods, and both methods work fine. The question you need to ask yourself is if getting back to the Raw is important to you. Do you have vfx elements in this? if so, the VFX house would rather receive 10bit DPX sequences of the shots that should be affected. Do you have a substantial amount of color grading? if so then this is the way to go.

cheers
Colin


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Richard Naylor
Re: ED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.
on Oct 12, 2011 at 9:15:58 am

Hey Colin,

Thanks once again. I have a professional colourist lined up who grades with Da Vinci. He explained he wants an EDL and he will go back and grade the raw files.

My question now is, when editing 720, do I edit in a 720 sequence? Even though I am going to re conform to RAW files?

Also is it okay to have the 2:1 look (black strip top and bottom) is that going to affect anything if handing in to festivals etc.

Best

RIch


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Colin Hubick
Re: ED Workflow problems. Red Cine X aspect ratio problem.
on Oct 19, 2011 at 5:58:48 pm

Yes work in the resolution that your offline files have been exported as. Again the important thing is maintaining a consistent aspect ratio. so if the final deliverable is going to be 16:9, then output all your offline files as 16:9. If you intend on delivering a different aspect ratio like 2:1 or 2.35:1 then work in that aspect ratio.

cheers
Colin


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