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conform to R3D for DPX export

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Matt Oaten
conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 15, 2011 at 10:59:37 am

Hi,

I have just finished the offline on a short film that I have directed (shot @ 4K on the MX). My editor cut in FCP with pro res LT proxies. I have managed to wangle a free baselight session and they are asking for a 10 bit DPX sequence. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way to conform back to the R3D's and the export DPX from that? I understand that this is beyond FCPs limit, and having scoured the forums i'm struggling to find a solution.

Thanks,

Matt


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David Battistella
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 15, 2011 at 12:34:59 pm

The very easiest way.

Send the sequence to Apple Color.

Set the sequence size to 2K or 4K output, what ever you like.

Set the handles to 12 frames.

Set a primary on the first clip and set the ISO to 640 REDGAMMA 2 and REDLOG FILM

SETUP COLOR to RENDER A DPX Sequence to an external drive.

Give them the XML and EDL to link back to the DPX media.

If you are paying for the job, have them do it. ANy post house worth their salt should be able to create a conform and cut list from RED media for a short film in half a day.


David

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Matt Oaten
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 15, 2011 at 3:29:43 pm

Thanks David,

MPC in london are doing the grade for free (I work with them often on commercial projects) so I just want make sure I take up as little of their time as possible. I'll have a crack at the DPX sequence, i've managed to conform to the R3D's using clipfiner and open the XML in color - so very nearly there I guess.

What's the benefit of changing the ISO to 640? I thought the native ISO of the MX was 800?

Thanks for your help,

Matt


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David Battistella
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 15, 2011 at 4:03:24 pm

Matt,

If you have that much solved most of the work is done.

In the Color Project just set your sequence to 4K cinema or 2K Cinema and Color will ask you to resize. Go through and make sure your frame sizes are all good.

If you shot 4K 16:9 2K Cinema in Color will be good for a 2K or HD Finish.

If you rated the footage at 800 then you can export at 800, just check your histograms for any clipping because clipped shots will be clipped when you export them to DPX. 640 will give you a bit of highlight protection on the export.

Personally, I only know of myself and Mark Toia who rate the M and MX at 320. You can rate it at 800 and get a lot of highlihgt protection, but if you know what you are doing I find that the RED sensor looks best with more light. At 320 you run a narrow margin of error, but 800 protects the highlights.

The M is noiser at 800 than the MX so I have found that an ISO rating of 500 to 640 for exteriors gives me the highlight protection, If I feel I need it or do not want to stack ND's

David

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Matt Oaten
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 15, 2011 at 4:10:52 pm

Wow, those settings get such a flat image. I've got a 4K DPX sequence exporting.

Is there a way to stop color re-naming the media? I can't see how it will match the EDL/XML if they are all re-named by color when they render. Do I need to export the EDL from Color or FCP? I understand i'm probably a little out of my depth here.

One last question, how does an EDL refer/relate to the DPX image sequence? Does it reference every frame?

Matt


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David Battistella
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 15, 2011 at 4:24:51 pm

That Flat Image is a great place to start for the grading.

The EDL questions are good.

The shots should all be going into individual folders and the EDL can be loaded and relinked ot the media in the folder. (there should be a reel name attached, but Davinci can relink this way so Baselight should be able to do this.

Make sure you include and XML of the sequence and the CMX 3600 EDL's as well.

If you send the project back to FCP it will not relink because FCP can read the DPX media without specific QT software.

How many events are we talking about? Color lays the shots down in Folders numbered 1-2-3 etc. and each of those connects to the sequential EDL event.

David

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Matt Oaten
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 15, 2011 at 4:44:12 pm

I'm actually testing this out on a different project, but I think there are around 40-50 events in my 6 minute short.

If it reads by events, how does it know that the first and last 12 frames are handles within each folder? Do DPX files retain timecode?

thanks again for your help.

Matt


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David Battistella
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 15, 2011 at 4:49:44 pm

Matt,

Yes.

The real interesting thing is why they would not want to grade from R3D directly. I know that Baselight is a file based system, but I also know that it works directly with R3D media.

I have done 4K finish to film with Baselight so I know the power of the system. In that case it was build 15 of RED at the time and there was no R3D support, but I think Baselight supports it now.

You'd just need the clipfinder edl and the R3D in that case.

Just being reminded of how much things have changed with RED post since then. IN that case we had to:

EDIT IN FCP
Create an EDL
Reverse engineer the EDL into REDCINE (and EOL APPLICATION)
EXPORT 4K DPX media from REDCINE
Relink in Baselight,
Grade 4K
Write the graded 4K files to ARRILASER to get it on FIlm.

That was in 2008 before FCP supported 4K media.
Now, you are prepping the same process from a LAPTOP and a simple effective tool like Clipfinder.

Who said posting RED was hard?
David


How do you feel about that 34.8 MB per frame file size at 4K.. LOL

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Mike Most
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 15, 2011 at 7:27:00 pm

It creates a log image, not a "flat" image. A log encoded image is not meant to be looked at, it is intended as a container that can encompass a much wider dynamic range than a gamma encoded image (i.e., a video image). You grade log images through either a log to lin LUT or a curve that is set up to simulate one.


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David Battistella
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 16, 2011 at 9:46:47 am

[Mike Most] "It creates a log image, not a "flat" image. A log encoded image is not meant to be looked at, it is intended as a container that can encompass a much wider dynamic range than a gamma encoded image (i.e., a video image). You grade log images through either a log to lin LUT or a curve that is set up to simulate one."

Thanks for bringing your wisdom here to this thread Mike.

David

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Matt Oaten
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 16, 2011 at 10:05:27 am

Yes, on commercial work I usually send them an EDL and the R3D's. I'm just trying to occupy as little of their time as possible - and also curious to learn more myself. Thanks for taking the time to explain things.

Matt


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Mike Most
Re: conform to R3D for DPX export
on Jun 15, 2011 at 7:27:44 pm

If you don't have a lot of things like speed changes, split screens, or multiple images on screen - in other words, if this is primarily a cut and dissolves edit - they're much better off conforming and grading directly from the R3d files, which Baselight does very, very well. I would revisit that with MPC (a very, very capable post company) before jumping through hoops to create a DPX sequence that will probably not be their best picture source anyway. My guess is that the only reason they're asking for the DPX sequence is to avoid conform issues (particularly if they're giving you the time for free), but if you don't have any, things will be just as easy doing it the "right" way.


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