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Claudio Miranda tests Red vs F23

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Barend Onneweer
Claudio Miranda tests Red vs F23
on Dec 19, 2007 at 11:21:31 pm

http://www.claudiomiranda.com/redvsf23/redvsf23.html

Apparently Claudio tested a 'generation 1' version of the Red camera that was also not properly collimated.

Red has already announced some major changes to some electronics boards, and the location of IR/LP filters - the first 100 camera's are being replaced in january. Flare characteristics and dynamic range are said to have been improved in the units that will ship soon.

I guess the good part is that Red acknowledges the room for improvement and is working hard to get there.

All the issues taken into account, not bad for a 17,500 USD camera body. Maybe not yet the miracle some would like it to be, but we'll see in the next months how the new incarnation holds up in the highest end playing field.

Bar3nd

Raamw3rk - digital storytelling and visual effects


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Claudio Miranda tests Red vs F23
on Dec 19, 2007 at 11:40:52 pm

Thank you for posting this.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Claudio Miranda tests Red vs F23
on Dec 22, 2007 at 11:55:21 pm

I am miserable that this page has been pulled, as I was anxious to see Claudio's analysis and observations.

Bob Zelin


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Barend Onneweer
Re: Claudio Miranda tests Red vs F23
on Dec 23, 2007 at 2:00:14 pm

The general outcome of Claudio's tests was that for a 17,5 k camera body RED performed very well.

From memory the biggest flaws Claudio described were:

1) red flare artefacts (ugly ones) caused by the IR/LP filter in front of the sensor.

2) compression artefacts most visible in the blue channel. The 12 to 1 compression does take its toll on the image quality. It's okay for many situations, but HDCAM SR clearly allows for a cleaner image.

3) probably related to 2): the noise structure for Red footage looked 'clumpy' and soft - the F23's grain structure is more visually pleasing.

4) on highlights the Red channel tends to clip before the others.

5) the dynamic range on Red is good, but the F23 has a stop more.

Some of these issues have already been dealt with by Red: the IR/LP filter is moved a couple of mm further away from the sensor which supposedly kills the ugly flares.

Dynamic range is supposedly improved by some new sensor settings on Red.

The 12:1 compression is quite good, but a lot of people are asking for user-adjustable compression ratios. Obviously you need to record to something that can cope with the data rates. The 12:1 is mostly aimed at recording to compact flash. Once CF media get faster or other media become available it would be great to be able to record less severely compressed pictures.

I'm told that Claudio has agreed to test the improved Red camera when it's available (first ones should be shipping in january).

Raamw3rk - digital storytelling and visual effects


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Todd at Fantastic Plastic
Re: Claudio Miranda tests Red vs F23
on Dec 24, 2007 at 4:59:52 pm

Those were the results as best I recall them as well.

Claudio also had a weird blue edge-to-edge line that would occassionally appear in the RED footage. Supposedly that was a known flaw that RED was going to fix.

I thought the lens flares in the RED were particularly weird/unusual/distressing. In a similar situation the F23 lens flares looked very "normal," what you might expect. But the RED created a very funky almost grid-shaped flare that was somewhat disconcerting.

I was a little disappointed that all of the side-by-side tests were with extremely wide lenses... they really didn't show off the DoF differences due to the wildly different sensor sizes. A side-by-side shootout with normal-to-longer lenses would be very nice to see.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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David Cherniack
Re: Claudio Miranda tests Red vs F23
on Dec 27, 2007 at 3:43:32 am

Why was this page pulled? I read it and his comments seemed fair and qualified when necessary.

I'm guessing he was getting slagged by Red-necks. If so what a shame. But people make totems out of the strangest things....


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Kyle_S
Re: Claudio Miranda tests Red vs F23
on Jan 1, 2008 at 11:08:41 pm

I must have been lucky. I got to read the post before it was pulled. I thought it was a very fair and detailed view of the two cameras.

You can't expect everyone to just go on about how great the camera is. Every camera has limits and short comings one just needs how to work with them and select the best one for the task at hand.

K


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