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Prores playback on LCD production monitor

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James A Smith
Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 15, 2010 at 11:18:32 am

Hi There,

I work as a final cut pro editor. We are currently working on our first Red project.

I have converted the R3D files via Red Rushes to 1920 X 1080 25p- Prores. We shot 3k/25p.

On my computer monitor the files look really smooth however when playing on a LCD production monitor the files look flickery/stroby on the camera movement.

Does anyone have any ideas why?
Hopefully I am posting to the correct forum! :)

Thanks very much,

James

James smith
Final Cut Pro Editor


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Noah Kadner
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 15, 2010 at 3:59:26 pm

Connected how? Is the LCD compatible with 25p?

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Canon 5D Mark II and 7D.


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James A Smith
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 15, 2010 at 5:19:12 pm

Hi,

It is indeed, it is connected SDI. I am in the Uk so most projects are 25p/25i.
This is our first Red Cam project though so wasn't sure if it was the sharpness due to the picture being 3k?

Thanks for your response.

James


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James A Smith
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 15, 2010 at 5:23:59 pm

Sorry also- I have had a look again in fcp and the flickers/strobe effect on camera movement is there.
It's just much more noticeable on the monitor.

Thanks

James


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Noah Kadner
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 15, 2010 at 5:42:56 pm

SDI- ok that's a start. Now again- how? From an AJA Kona card or....? Try to describe your setup as if we can't actually see it from here.

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Canon 5D Mark II and 7D.


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James A Smith
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 15, 2010 at 7:54:09 pm

OK.

The JVC LCD Production monitor is linked up SD outputting through an AJA Kona card.
-Card is set to 1080 25p SDI output.
-Footage- 1920 x 1080 25p prores HQ- converted in red rushes which was shot at 3k- 25p.
-Some footage is shot at 50FPS some 25fps.
-Shot using motion control
-Problem- on pans/camera movement. The movement looks jittery. Camera is on a track so there are intentional moves through a building.
-Running Final Cut Pro Studio 2. Version 6.5.
-Mac OS X - 10.5


I am not at work at the moment but will send you the exact monitor tomorrow.
Enough info!?

Cheers Noah.

J


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Uli Plank
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 15, 2010 at 8:33:19 pm

Was the DoP experienced in shooting film or was he/she a video guy/gal? You need to move the camera very differently when shooting 24 or 25p…

Do the shots with 50p look smooth or are they used for slo-mo?

Is the card really set up for 25p or PsF? Some monitors can't handle true progressive and need PsF.

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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James A Smith
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 16, 2010 at 2:44:53 pm

Hi There,

I Have actually played back the R3D file using Red Cine. It still doesn't look quite right.
I think that actually it is something to do with the shoot rather than the transcode.

We are sending it to another company for an independent QC to double check.

Thanks for your replys- sometimes you just can't get the staff!


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Noah Kadner
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 16, 2010 at 3:47:28 pm

How does it not look right- motion artifacting or color rendition? The latter is of course how it was shot but also which color and gamma profiles are being used to view it. Motion artifacting that looks 'incorrect' could be as simple as panning too fast- same issue as film, or choosing an inappropriate shutter setting. Or it could be a symptom of dropping frames- but if this happens during a shoot you get an impossible to ignore error indication in the camera so you'd know this already. Experience counts for a *lot* with RED, these are not point and shoot camcorders by any measure.

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Canon 5D Mark II and 7D.


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James A Smith
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 16, 2010 at 4:36:26 pm

HI Noah,

We are very surprised at the outcome. We invested a lot of money in the pros. I think what you have said here is my suspicion:

Motion artifacting that looks 'incorrect' could be as simple as panning too fast- same issue as film, or choosing an inappropriate shutter setting.

Thanks for your help, Red Cam editing is a whole new ball game for me so It is very interested reading everyones comments.

James smith
Final Cut Pro Editor


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Noah Kadner
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 16, 2010 at 6:08:29 pm

Feel free to post a bit of footage if you want to have us give you more analysis- YouTube lets you post 1080p these days and Vimeo too...

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Canon 5D Mark II and 7D.


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James A Smith
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 19, 2010 at 6:32:43 pm

Thanks very much. when the project is done I will do so.

James

James smith
Final Cut Pro Editor


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gary adcock
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 17, 2010 at 6:56:05 pm

[Noah Kadner] "Connected how? Is the LCD compatible with 25p?"

are you viewing as P or PSF.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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James A Smith
Re: Prores playback on LCD production monitor
on Sep 19, 2010 at 6:34:53 pm

Hi Gary,

We have actually had it confirmed that it is the raw file ( i.e- a mess up on shoot).
I presumed it was my setup or transcode but the problem is on the r3d file.

Thanks though,

James smith
Final Cut Pro Editor


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