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John Cregan
Red workflow question
on Apr 23, 2010 at 11:21:02 pm

I have a feature shot on RED that I cut with Prores files I printed in Red Rushes. The film was originally onlined by a post house by taking the Prores into DPX files, then creating files that were corrected in Color.

I have a few changes (about 8 minutes worth) and I'm trying to help the producers figure out a low-budget alternative to bringing in the new shots. Oh, and I am a moron when it comes to RED workflow. With those caveats, what would be the best way to bring in the new shots in the same uncompressed resolution that the rest of the film is in (the file for the feature is about 750 GB)? I've heard there is a way to bypass the DPX stage at this point...


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Noah Kadner
Re: Red workflow question
on Apr 24, 2010 at 1:42:22 am

I'm not quite understanding what you want to do- 8 minutes worth of changes is not little- that's massive. Do the producers get that if they make those changes without the DPX color grading those shots are likely to stand out in stark contrast to the rest of the movie?

I guess you can go with the ProRes shots from RED Rushes and just wing it- but I'd say it will knock the overall quality of the movie down a few notches. Don't you have a sound remix there too? Yikes. Lock the picture for good before going out to grading in DPX. :)

Noah

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John Cregan
Re: Red workflow question
on Apr 24, 2010 at 2:20:55 am

Um, I hear what you're saying about locking for DPX, but it's for an alternate cut for foreign markets...

Anyway, I get it, but I'm not sure they understand that the Prores will stand out. That's why I was asking about the workflow I'd heard about where you can go back to the raw files without doing the step in DPX. Something about using Color, but knowing that even on a muscular system that w/o Red Rocket it will take eons to render?


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Arnie Schlissel
Re: Red workflow question
on Apr 24, 2010 at 3:18:01 am

[John Cregan] "That's why I was asking about the workflow I'd heard about where you can go back to the raw files without doing the step in DPX."

If it doesn't go back to the same colorist, it will be more difficult to match. Same thing with the sound mix- if you bring it to a different colorist or mixer, they will not have the benefit of the previous work, the previous project files, the previous custom presets, etc.

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


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David Battistella
Re: Red workflow question
on Apr 24, 2010 at 1:32:59 pm



The best way to do this is to follow the original Color Corection pass. By reading you r post I am understanding you did this.

Transcoded to prores
transcoded to DPX to correct in FCP

I don't want to bash anyone's methods but that is about the most backwards assed way to use RED RAW and it kind defeats the entire purpose.

If you are going to do eigh minutes over again I would suggest finding a person who understands how to use R3D in Apple Color and regrade the whole film from the R3D files. DPX files are a totally unnessary step when you are able to access the 4K RAW data in Apple Color through the RED tab.

I do not mean to rant but when I read about workflows like this it is a bit frustrating to say the least.

I've been grading with Apple Color with amazing results for quite some time.

But you can pick between these two valid suggestions:

1. Do it over again correctly
2. Use the same people or the same path as the original

David

Peace


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David Battistella
Re: Red workflow question
on Apr 24, 2010 at 5:37:01 pm

[David Battistella] "Transcoded to prores
transcoded to DPX to correct in FCP"


Correcting my own post.

You/they

1. Transcoded everything to PRORES
2. USED the PRORES to create DPX and Color Correct in COLOR.

The point of shooting Raw is to access the RAW data at the online/cc stage.

David



Peace


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John Cregan
Re: Red workflow question
on Apr 24, 2010 at 6:27:19 pm

Exactly - you have to understand that I had nothing to do with the post workflow decisions on the original cut of the movie. I'm just trying to learn here on the the fly here to help wrap this up. Thank you (David) for answering my initial question, I can happily pardon the rage.

I'm in a tough spot because the Producer and the first post house had a falling out, so I have to find a different house to conform this alternate version of the film. (Honestly, I don't really need to hear about what should have been done, etc., I just needed the info about the workflow so I know what to look for now. I was a bystander when those calls were being made.)

Now I know I should find a house that will use the Raw files instead of the DPX files. I probably don't have the budget to do a new conform of the entire cut using the raw files, but instead would conform the new footage onto a timeline with the uncompressed file from the original output (the one which used DPX).

It sounds like the Prores files I printed in Red Rushes can be used to point to the Raw files, which would then be brought into Color, which then would be brought into FCP on a timeline with the footage from the original output.


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David Battistella
Re: Red workflow question
on Apr 24, 2010 at 10:39:45 pm



John,

Where are you located?

Are you planning a filmout or HDCAM SR master.

I can appreciate the spot you are in. If you need help. e-mail me dbattistella (at) sympatico (dat) ca

david



Peace


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Russell Lasson
Re: Red workflow question
on Apr 26, 2010 at 6:10:27 pm

There are a lot of different options for you. This is what I would suggest.

Find a post house that is RED friendly. If they use Assimilate Scratch, this can be an indication that they know their stuff. Not saying that there aren't a bunch of other great systems and workflows that are RED friendly, but being a Scratch Artist, what you're looking to do is very easy in Scratch. Plus Scratch people mostly have done a lot of work with RED and should ask you to do something silly like transcode ProRes files to DPX to grade in Apple's Color.

So once you found a facility, create one timeline in FCP. This timeline should have all of the scenes for the new version, plus a few references from the scenes before and after each new change. This will make it easy for the colorist to know what to try to match. Your how sequence should really only be about 12-14 minutes long.

Now deliver the timeline to the post facility with the colored master from the first color pass, the ProRes files from the changes and the R3D files that the ProRes files were created from (you just need to give the the R3D files for the new sections that you want).

If the facility is RED friendly, then they should have this conformed in their color suite in a few clicks. Hardest thing is just copying R3D files from your drive to the color system.

A decent colorist on a decent system using the R3D files should be able to match the look that you have if you provide him with reference shots. Should be quite straight forward. Depending on how complex the changes are, you should expect to spend anywhere from a half day to a full day to get in and out.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Color Mill
Salt Lake City, UT
http://www.colormill.net


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