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RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?

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Sean Kapleton
RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 21, 2010 at 3:09:31 pm

Hey friends,

Having recently had to teach myself RedCine-X on a job that came in with very short notice, which had footage off the new MX sensor, I was really frustrated to find very little info out there on how to use the application beyond the pdf manual it comes with. I have noticed that for many of these RED apps there is little info beyond the pdf manuals on how to use these apps - RedCine-X RocketCine-X, RedRushes, ClipFinder, RedAlert, etc.

Having checked out this forum in the past quit a bit and more recently reduser.net I still find myself looking for answers on a lot of things. My girlfriend thinks I am a major NERD because at midnight when she is trying to go to sleep on a weeknight I'm on my iphone in bed reading through forum threads trying to get answers to stuff and be "more serious about RED workflows as I've been informed to do by you guys...bottom line there seems not to be that much tutorial step-by-step stuff out there for these post apps and the forums don't always get you responses.

I know Noah has a good book which I have gone thru (also has a note about Redcine-x coming out during its publication) I purchased it for the studio I work in, but if I really want to know about how the heck to create in and out point for rendering small tests in RedCine-X for example (manual description leaves gaps in explaining actual functionality), or some in depth analysis of making different 1 light passes in RedCine-X / RocketCine-x and how all those buttons / sliders affect the picture etc w/ real world examples of creating looks etc beyond trial and error how am I meant to be serious? Maybe I should start a local NY support group for RED post people ;)

Its a learning process for sure and practice has been my mantra but as a post production person here in NY I am curious to find other resources in order to be more serious about RED.

any thoughts or feedback would be much appreciated,

cheers

sean



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Noah Kadner
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 21, 2010 at 3:39:00 pm

My book and the RED 101 DVD would be good places to start. Unfortunately the nature of RED is the bleeding edge. If you are looking for a unified, simple workflow that's well documented and highly intuitive, basically this is not the camera for you.

You can definitely get work done if you spend the time to learn what you need. For RED M-X footage at this stage in the game what you want to use is Red Cine-X, which has the most mature support so far. But as far as a good manual for it, unfortunately it's pretty much on the job training.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.


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Uli Plank
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 21, 2010 at 7:55:25 pm

Well, the manual for REDCine-X is better than the one for REDCine was …

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Sean Kapleton
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 21, 2010 at 9:30:26 pm

ha! yeah i guess that is true Uli...good point.
Thanks for the feedback Noah much appreciated.

Some questions left to be answered just in case anyone feels like giving it a go:

With the new MX sensor as well as Epic & Scarlet coming to a post-house near you will I still not be able to use Redrushes or will a new quicktime plugin be coming out that recognizes the newest color space? I ask because for example if I do not need to do a 1 light and just need to transcode for certain jobs that FIRST FRAME ONLY Time Code Burn-In is really critical.

Exporting ProRes HQ 1920x1080
: Just to clarify i only use the custom export i created for quicktime and allow its setting for 1920x1080 to do the work converting from 2K, 3K, 4K but when do i need to actually use the Frame Window to apply a fit to width or height of 1920x1080 (like i would in RedRushes when one has 2k & 4 K footage to transcode to 1080p).

Timecode Burn In:
does this burn all the way through the transcode where as in RedRushes you have some options (i.e. burn on first frame only) Usually i would avoid having to slate each clip by just using RedRushes option to burn timecode on the first frame...but if RedCine-X can only do that on the entire clip then I will have to slate each shot on a timeline before laying to tape which if you have 100-200 shots can be VERY time consuming.

In and Out point:

I wanted to set in & out points on clips in order to run a bunch of tests on small pieces of the clips to figure this all out on my own through trial and error but I found that this was very confusing and difficult to use so i just had the entire clips rendering over-night - hoping to get a red-rocket eventually.

cheers

sean





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Jason Myres
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 12:46:17 am

The grenade at the bottom of their website pretty much says it all. When it comes to RED, you gotta earn it. But, thats exactly what's going to make you really valuable to a producer or director one day.

JM


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Uli Plank
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 5:39:34 am

Clipfinder 2.5 is very capable already, and H. G. Daun is open to suggestions.

Did you see Noah's post over at Reduser:

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/REDCODE_QT_v41_b1.zip

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/RED...ld_221_mac.zip

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/RED...4_0_beta_2.zip

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Noah Kadner
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 2:22:38 pm

Yeah- unfortunately I'm discovering you're a bit out in the wilderness support-wise with M-X footage in the Apple workflow at this moment. Life on the bleeding edge...

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.


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David Battistella
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 2:44:51 pm



Just as a point here fellas.

The new build cover the M and M-X sensors with the new color science.

The QT beta codec has been released - Uli provided the link
The BETA COLOR plugin has been released - Uli provided that too.

I am fairly certain that Red Rushes and Red Alert will be a thing of the past soon. I think that ROCKETCINE-X will also be done.

That will leave one post tool for RED. REDCINE-X

I am expecting to see a new version of clipfinder in the coming week. This may include REDLINE command line rendering with an app like clipfinder that will be able to enable the NEW COLOR SCIENCE.

A purchased version of clipfinder will allow you to set in and out points and then send to RC-X to render with RC-X or REDROCKET card.

It's getting so you pretty much need a REDROCKET card to deal with RED footage (M sensor or M-X as it shoots on the same build)

Dealing with 4.5K footage is a different issue. Both M and M-X shoot that frame size as well.

David


Peace


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Sean Kapleton
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 2:30:39 pm

Hey Uli I did not see Noah's post on Reduser - can you link me to that?

I do see the .zip links and thats great just curious to read what the post was...there are a lot of forums and threads on there so It can be difficult to keep track of stuff and up to speed what with life and all ; )



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Noah Kadner
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 2:34:32 pm

If you search for me over there you'll find it. There was nothing else in my post- I was asking the question about what support there was and sadly answering my own question with those links...

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.


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Sean Kapleton
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 2:38:02 pm

ps. two of those links dont work but regardless before I install the QT codec I would def want to know more before installing on my system here.



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David Battistella
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 2:47:36 pm



Sean,

If you want to have a conversation about this send me an e-mail and I can talk you through some stuff.

David



Peace


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Uli Plank
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 5:17:25 pm

Hi Sean,

that's a great offer! If someone really knows the Clipfinder workflow, it's David!

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Sean Kapleton
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 6:23:26 pm

I dont know how to email someone privately through the cow - clicked on his name but i dont want to bother him on facebook or linked in ya know.

anyways well thanks everyone for your responses it feels good to get feedback in the dark and scary wilderness that is RED post ; )

best

s



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Noah Kadner
Re: RED applications lacking detailed instruction / support?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 3:42:50 pm

[Sean Kapleton] "ps. two of those links dont work but regardless before I install the QT codec I would def want to know more before installing on my system here."

You're right- they're truncated by the site. Here are the full links:

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/REDCODE_QT_v41_b1.zip

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/REDCINE-X_build_221_mac.zip

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/REDCODE_Color_v4_0_beta_2.zip

However- keep in mind it's all beta stuff and not recommended for a deadline heavy production. Stick with the REDCine-X app for now.

Noaoh




Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.


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