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What is Red Rocket's future?

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Neil Abeynayake
What is Red Rocket's future?
on Apr 16, 2010 at 3:52:32 am

With the release of native file editing software, what incentives are there to buy an expensive ancillary card?

(Quote)

Edit video natively in the latest tapeless formats, including RED, AVCCAM, XDCAM HD 50, DPX, P2, XDCAM, and DSLR cameras, without transcoding or rewrapping.

(End quote)

What's new in Adobe Premiere Pro CS5

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/whatsnew/



"Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else".

Confucius


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David Battistella
Re: What is the Red Rocket's future?
on Apr 16, 2010 at 3:57:28 am



Technically, you can edit natively r3d with FCP.

Does that mean you want to?

The RR is a pure and hard core render machine.

I hope it's future includes enabling RT support in third party NLE software so that it can do the hard core processing needed for r3d work.

If this was the case I think it would be a much more widely sold tool.

Right now it is a RT playback for r3d with RED applications and some third party software, but it is not (as far as I know) enabled for RT use of r3d in any NLE.

It will only become more important in the future as RED moves to higher data rates an less compression in R3D files. This makes RR processing even more important.

David



David



Peace


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gary adcock
Re: What is Red Rocket's future?
on Apr 16, 2010 at 2:59:52 pm

[Neil Abeynayake] "With the release of native file editing software, what incentives are there to buy an expensive ancillary card?
"


how are you going to play out to a display or properly monitor your signal?
How are you going to lay off to tape?

My question :
if you are not outputting files for highend delivery-why in the world do you need the additional hassle just to be able to edit natively?

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Neil Abeynayake
Re: What is Red Rocket's future?
on Apr 17, 2010 at 12:48:49 am

[gary adcock] "how are you going to play out to a display or properly monitor your signal?
How are you going to lay off to tape?"


I have to respectfully disagree with you on this Gary.

How did people do this before the advent of the RED Rocket card?

I'm sure you've seen affordable SDI cards such as, Black Magic, Kona and multitude of other (inexpensive) cards. If you walked on the isles of LV Convention Center and other venues, during CES and NAB, you would have seen there were at least 3 ~ 4 dozen Asian vendors offering PCI HD/2K/4K SDI, HDMI and optical cards for less than $200.00.


DeckLink HD Extreme 3D

DeckLink Optical Fiber

http://www.decklink.com/products/decklinkhdextreme/

--------

Atlona AT-HDSDI-AV provides high quality 12 bit conversion between SDI digital video input and HDMI / DVI digital video output or YPbPr / Composite (CVBS) / RGBHV analog video output. Plus, with an extra DVI output through HDMI type A connector, users can have pure digital video transmission path without analog conversion distortion. The AT-HDSDI-AV supports both SD-SDI and HD-SDI formats (SMPTE 259M, SMPTE 292M, and SMPTE 296M), and also features 2 equalized SDI loop outs.

http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-HD-SD-SDI-to-HDMI-DVI-YPbPr-Composite-RGBHV-Co...

---------

KONA LHi

http://www.silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=26&cat=0&page=4

---------

"My question :
if you are not outputting files for highend delivery-why in the world do you need the additional hassle just to be able to edit natively?"


Why not?

Why should 3K, 4K and soon 5K be a domain just for an elite few? Some of the best talent comes out of everyday Joes who are pushing envelops to reach out for their dreams.

Most of the "High-End Deliveries" are done through the Internet or via satellite. Sony is just about the only company left who is, still hung on "Tape" capture/delivery methodologies. Even they are moving to satellite for 4K movie deliveries.

Sony Selects Microspace to Deliver First 4K Digital Feature via Satellite

http://www.dcinematoday.com/dc/pr.aspx?newsID=747


Also in other parts of the world companies like Teliasonera are offering uncompressed 4k deliveries every day.

http://www.teliasonera.com/Search-Results/?q=Search+the+webUncompressed+4K+...



"Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else".

Confucius


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Bob Zelin
Re: What is Red Rocket's future?
on Apr 17, 2010 at 2:12:48 am

what is the debate here. The Red Rocket card simply accelerates the transcoding of .r3d files to
another format like ProRes422. Without a Red Rocket card, it's just a lot slower - no matter what free codec you have.

Bob Zelin



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Illya Laney
Re: What is Red Rocket's future?
on Apr 17, 2010 at 2:53:04 am

"Most of the "High-End Deliveries" are done through the Internet or via satellite. Sony is just about the only company left who is, still hung on "Tape" capture/delivery methodologies. Even they are moving to satellite for 4K movie deliveries."

Every spot/music video I've done for Sony's been shot with RED and delivered via the internets, so that's changing too.

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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gary adcock
Re: What is Red Rocket's future?
on Apr 17, 2010 at 4:21:21 pm

[Neil Abeynayake] "How did people do this before the advent of the RED Rocket card? "

My comment was not about the rocket card, but about content delivery in general.

The rocket is a one trick pony and IMHO is not suitable for laying off to tape with, since there is are no spigots for audio or Rs422 deck control. I Was referring to video cards like those you mention.


Sorry but I am NEVER going to use some 200 card from a company that just sprung up in my workflows, my clients needs are much too unforgiving to even think about that when there are established cards from known MFG's that are well supported

"Why not?
Why should 3K, 4K and soon 5K be a domain just for an elite few? Some of the best talent comes out of everyday Joes who are pushing envelops to reach out for their dreams. "


Sorry Neil but I do not think it is wise to be working with file s 4K when want a web deliverable, it would be a massive waste of time and resources, along with possible conversion issues when it comes to images scaling down to web streams- you are using a wrecking ball to hammer in a nail.

Why make your workflow geometrically harder than it needs to be.

Let me put it this way, for a long time commercials were shot on film and completely edited using Dbeta-there is not always a REQUIREMENT to work at full rez. You need to make sure that you fit the workflow to the delivery needs not to what the cameras.

The frist question in every workflow is "What Are My Deliverables?"
not what camera you are shooting on.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Illya Laney
Re: What is Red Rocket's future?
on Apr 17, 2010 at 9:21:50 pm

"Sorry Neil but I do not think it is wise to be working with file s 4K when want a web deliverable, it would be a massive waste of time and resources, along with possible conversion issues when it comes to images scaling down to web streams- you are using a wrecking ball to hammer in a nail."

I think he meant delivering it to the client via the internets. At least I hope that's what he meant. Though I do see a future for 2K for the web. Check out a couple of these.

http://www.factorylabs.com/#/powder

http://www.factorylabs.com/#/on-time

http://www.factorylabs.com/#/powder

and Spike Jonze's "I'm Here" 45 minute short film.

http://www.imheremovie.com/#

I watch these full screen on a 30" Cinema Display and they barely stutter. It is obvious that the compression degrades the image, but that will improve sooner than most people think.



Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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Neil Abeynayake
Re: What is Red Rocket's future?
on Apr 18, 2010 at 3:55:27 am

Thank you both Gary and Illya for your responses. I should have been more specific about the "Web deliverable" analogy. What I meant was (as Illya stated), how we approach client deliveries via the internet and/or satellite. I think we all agree that majority (and gradually all) future commercial, video, spots and movie captures will be file based as opposed to linear tape or celluloid based work-flow that the industry enjoyed until now.

And computer platforms and software applications had matured to a point where we tend to (take for granted and) expect more from them. What was cutting edge technology yesterday is nothing more than a passing glance today. Having said that, IMHO there is nothing wrong in using the best possible work-flow available to you. If that means editing in native files without transcoding and being subjected to a performance hit on your work-flow; it is worth looking at.

Gary, I think we both have parallel thoughts about what "rocket's" capabilities and limitations are. I'm sure you know this but, let, me state this for those who might like to know anyway. When it comes to SDI card manufacturers, most of them are based in Asia. US and European hardware/software solution providers rely on these folks to provide them with hardware branded with trade names those are familiar to us. However, once a patent is changed 25%, law does not prevent these "card stampers" from selling the same product (that we pay a premium) at fraction of the US msrp (re-branded of course). So, the "inexpensive" SDI card may not be that bad after all.


"Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else".

Confucius


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gary adcock
Re: What is Red Rocket's future?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 2:57:34 pm

[Neil Abeynayake] "When it comes to SDI card manufacturers, most of them are based in Asia. US and European hardware/software solution providers rely on these folks to provide them with hardware branded with trade names those are familiar to us."

Neil
that might be the case for your Video card, but I can say without hesitation that the AJA cards and hardware are designed and built in Grass Valley CA.

"So, the "inexpensive" SDI card may not be that bad after all. "

I could not disagree more, the level that get to work at means that I cannot compromise on anything, and why would I want the hassle of a card that may or maynot have regular driver updates for my working OS?

While I work in virtually every software package, my main editor is FCP and I do not see Apple allowing full scale development within FCP to just anyone. The AJA hardware cards I use go thru the most rigorous QC testing that I have run across outside of NASA. That testing combined with their use as an OEM product for other editing/compositing packages (both Autodesk and Avid both OEM Kona boards) offer me the best combination possible.

To me using an "inexpensive" card in my mac is akin to putting a crappy lens on the front of a camera- it wastes the quality of my image when it is not necessary.




(disclaimer: - I have consulted with AJA on product testing, development and I have spoke on behalf of the company- I am not now, nor have I ever been an employee of AJA)



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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