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Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow

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Andrew Kennedy
Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow
on Apr 16, 2010 at 1:51:40 am

I will be in charge of shooting and editing with the RedOne and I have been researching the various workflows for the RedOne using Final Cut Pro. I'm aware that I can ingest the Raw footage into Final Cut through ProRess log and transfer. However there is a lot of talk about just using the Quick Time proxies and then re-conforming the XML back to the 4k Red Files. However the process seems more difficult and I've read that Apple Color has a lot of issues with reconforming. Am I missing something by simply ingesting Red Raw with ProRess 4444 and then color correcting with After Effects instead of Color ? The output will be to Film.

thanks,

Andrew


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Illya Laney
Re: Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow
on Apr 17, 2010 at 3:37:32 am

If you edit with the R3D proxies all you need to do is send the sequence to Color and it connects directly to the R3D's. Just prep the sequence correctly. Lots on that in the Color forum. Just make sure to edit with the lower res proxies.

Use REDCINE-X if you want to go the transcoding route and experiment with the different color space and gamma settings to get the base look you want. Last time I checked, FCP log and transfer doesn't support a full debayer. I never go that route anyway so anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Nothing wrong with grading in After Effects, it's just a lot slower than Color if you're doing any serious grading.

Hope that helps.

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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David Battistella
Re: Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow
on Apr 17, 2010 at 3:45:41 am



If your finish is film:

1. Create offline proxies with a lighweight codec like prores or DVCPRO HD 720P.

2. Edit in FCP

3. Use clipfiner to reconform your final sequence to the r3d files.

4, send from FCP to Color.

5. Grade in 4K in Color and export DPX files.

6. For a film out you are going to want to get your hands on some LUT's for whatever film stock you are outputting to as you will most likely have to grade in a logorythmic COlor space.

David



Peace


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Andrew Kennedy
Re: Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow
on Apr 17, 2010 at 2:16:34 pm

Great thanks,

So I guess in your opinion Pro Res 4444 is not the way to go. I know it's compressed more than RAW but I didn't know how much quality I would lose. Or is just the file size with be ginormous to try to edit from FCP ? I came from the HVX crowd so I love the LT option. So I guess the question is what is wrong with Pro Res 4444 12 bit ?

thanks so much


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David Battistella
Re: Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow
on Apr 18, 2010 at 2:54:03 pm


I love prorez 4444.

Your post talks about outputing to film. I would suggest that whoever is doing the film output requires a deliverable of some kind.

1. Prores is Mac only.
2. Preffered output to film is file based, DPX, Cineon, tiff, etc.
3. AE reads R3D directly.
4. Film Color Space can be written into a DPX or cineon.
5. Prorez 4444 may limit you to video color space.

I did not say I di not like prores. I answered your question based on the deliverable.

Who is doing your filmout?

David



Peace


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Andrew Kennedy
Re: Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow
on Apr 19, 2010 at 2:20:46 pm

Gotcha. Thanks.

I'm not sure who is doing the film out. We've developed a a pretty good relationship with Alpha Cine so my first choice would be them.


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gary adcock
Re: Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow
on Apr 19, 2010 at 3:00:44 pm

[David Battistella] "5. Prorez 4444 may limit you to video color space.
"


Why?
the 4444 ProRes codec can be either Y'Cb'Cr' or RGB at up to 12 bit color depth (w/16bit alpha)
It will not give you anything that you do not ask for.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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David Battistella
Re: Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow
on Apr 19, 2010 at 4:09:28 pm



I was thinking 4:2:2 when I wrote this quickly.

Confirming. The 4444 will give you equal film Log space and bit depth as a DPX or Cineon?

David



Peace


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gary adcock
Re: Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow
on Apr 19, 2010 at 5:18:14 pm

[David Battistella] "Confirming. The 4444 will give you equal film Log space and bit depth as a DPX or Cineon? "

That would depend on the master, but yes it does, I regularly work in full 12 bit (4096 levels) ProRes files captured from RGB / LOG Masters on HDCamSR or DPX from a variety of cameras. Let me say that monitoring of an actual 12bit signal is going to be one expensive bitch for awhile.

DPX and Cineon files can go well beyond 12bit max in ProRes 4444 but currently only Film, Phantom Cine, ArriRaw and RED's MX/ R3D files have bit depths that can equal or exceed 12bit and only when handled correctly throughout the post pipeline.

Arri chose ProRes 4444 for their workflow for Alexa, I think that soundly places ProRes at the top of the list when it comes to codecs I want to work with.

I use ProRes 4444 in place of DPX more and more. Now that Arri has adopted it, I expect to have less issues from clients about using a compressed codec.


gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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David Battistella
Re: Pro Res 4444 vs XML Reconform workflow
on Apr 19, 2010 at 11:14:10 pm



Gary,

I am very impressed with that CODEC and am using it as the render CODEC out of APPLE Color on direct from R3D work. Very solid codec.

I agree, with ALEXA going that route it can only make for less nervous clients. (but I still prefer RAW)

David





Peace


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