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Still trying to figure out sync issue between camera and audio.

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Paul Harb
Still trying to figure out sync issue between camera and audio.
on Mar 24, 2010 at 11:23:15 pm

Shot a music video at 23.98 on RED. Playback on set was played from a laptop as a 44.1k 16bit file. Camera obviously records scratch track at 48k 24bit audio. I spit out Por Res HQ files using RedRushes. When I put any take into the timeline using pro res settings matching the video, and line up that scratch audio with the same track that was played on set for playback, it drifts out of sync....you notice it about halfway through the song...then at the end its off even more....so there is a constant drift as it plays. Im stumped, Aja is stumped...Gary you have tried to help but if you saw my responses none of your suggestions fixed what Im seeing either.

Everyone keeps telling me that it doesnt matter that the camera was recording my CD master file during playback at 24bit 48k...they say it shouldnt create any drift...this goes against what I know, however I am wrong a lot, so I dont rule that out but as of now I am still stuck with nobody able to figure out whats going on. I have posted this in the Kona forum thinking it might be that, but I really lean towards the camera record speed and the actual master audio file itself. Help please :)

Paul

Paul Harb-Producer/Director
Wrong Beach Multimedia
Dual 3.2 GHz Quad/10.5.5/8GIG RAM/FCP 6.0.4/QT 7.5.5



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Noah Kadner
Re: Still trying to figure out sync issue between camera and audio.
on Mar 25, 2010 at 2:14:28 am

Unfortunately that really doesn't sound out of line (no pun intended). Why didn't you convert the source track to 48 Khz? Trying to sync up two clips of different sampling rates is one recipe for drift.

There's not likely to be a global fix. It's pretty much time to roll up the sleeves and hand correct the drift with razor edits on each take. Good news is music videos are short and you'll be able to check the sync easily on each shot with your scratch track. Next time go out with a time code synced audio player- like a Sound Devices and a timecode smart slate- and jam sync to your camera. That's the way the big boys do it.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.


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Paul Harb
Re: Still trying to figure out sync issue between camera and audio.
on Mar 25, 2010 at 4:14:36 am

LOL, we actually hired a playback guy who took the file to one of the bigboys to transcode the file for playback. I just found that out now. The actual person who did playback didnt really even know what the audio house did to the file. So, it WAS converted to a 48k 24bit file, that is what was played to the band, and that is what was fed to the RED cams for scratch from the playback guy who was also generating TC to a digital slate. So we did it right, there was just some confusion I guess. They never gave me the layoff track, which they say they have and should lock right into what the scratch track, and hence the band is playing to.

I think the mystery of pulling my hair out for the last 48 hours was solved....I will find out when I get the file but it sounds right and is why I kept coming back to the sample rate that he TOLD me it was played at which was 44.1k....and the camera records 48k....those dont sync up...

Thks for everyone that took the time to give advice in this problem.

Paul

Paul Harb-Producer/Director
Wrong Beach Multimedia
Dual 3.2 GHz Quad/10.5.5/8GIG RAM/FCP 6.0.4/QT 7.5.5



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gary adcock
Re: Still trying to figure out sync issue between camera and audio.
on Mar 25, 2010 at 3:10:20 pm

[Noah Kadner] "Why didn't you convert the source track to 48 Khz? Trying to sync up two clips of different sampling rates is one recipe for drift. "

This is the same answer that he got in the Kona forum.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Paul Harb
Re: Still trying to figure out sync issue between camera and audio.
on Mar 25, 2010 at 5:38:18 pm

Wow gary,

You really are angry arent you?

If you actually read all my posts since the first time you responded with your rude and WRONG advice, you would see that my playback guy was wrong and he had sent out the playback file to an audio house that does most of the music videos done in LA, they did convert the file to the proper 48k 24bit.

This is why if once again you read all my posts and not just angrily posted your responses thinking Im just some dumb idiot who hasnt exhausted his resources and kept hitting a wall; you would realize you didnt quite grasp what I was asking.

....I also kept going back to what I thought was FACT, and ended up being wrong info, that the playback guy was playing a 44.1k file to which the band was syncing to, however the camera was recording that same audio at 48k 24bit....hence the drift and NO WAY to sync this with the scratch audio. I DID export the file at 48k here, way before I ever posted on COw for help...it didnt work so please before you jump all over someone from you high and mighter soupbox, please pay attention and maybe have just a drop of humility, because you might not know everything.

I noticed you stopped posting responses after you kept telling me to do a mixdown and asking were ALL my audio sources the same, foley ect.....this tells me you were NOT EVEN READING MY POSTS!!!!!

THIs was stated as a music video with one source of master audio from the start, and yet you kept telling me to mixdown all my different audio sources in my timeline...thks for the help. I even thked you for trying and moved on to try and find someone who actually was listening totally to my posts not just what they were filtering in their heads. I dont mean this as a slam, I know what you do here and I have been coming to the cow for many many years, as long as you have. I am not one of those that doesnt try and figure things out himself and hopes everyone else will. But I am taken aback by your hostility towards a legitimate issue i was having. I guess everyone has their way, but if you dont want to help someone...just dont say anything instead of being mean just cause your annoyed for whatever reason.






Paul Harb

Paul Harb-Producer/Director
Wrong Beach Multimedia
Dual 3.2 GHz Quad/10.5.5/8GIG RAM/FCP 6.0.4/QT 7.5.5



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Noah Kadner
Re: Still trying to figure out sync issue between camera and audio.
on Mar 25, 2010 at 5:57:28 pm

Relax and get on with your life already Paul. When you frantically come asking for help but without discovering the critical details that would have helped to solve your problem from the get go- you can't be surprised to receive a little frustration in return. So how about you stop stoking the fires with a pointless rebuke to Gary and just get back to your project?

We'll all be here to help you with your next challenge. Or maybe not if you keep knocking folks like Gary- who works his tail off on all sorts of paying gigs and still finds a few moments in the day to help people like you on a completely volunteer basis here on the Cow. Just like the rest of us...

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.


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Paul Harb
Re: Still trying to figure out sync issue between camera and audio.
on Mar 25, 2010 at 6:13:40 pm

Like I said

I THOUGHT I did have the right critical information, I cant help if my playback guy gave me the wrong info. I didnt know I was stroking the fires as you say. We all work our butts off on paying gigs and come on here and help each other and we all are not perfect, some of us just dont know it I guess. Ive been here long enough to remember when you didnt get condesending responses from moderators.....its a brave new world......Ill get back to work now...


Paul

Paul Harb-Producer/Director
Wrong Beach Multimedia
Dual 3.2 GHz Quad/10.5.5/8GIG RAM/FCP 6.0.4/QT 7.5.5



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David Battistella
Re: Still trying to figure out sync issue between camera and audio.
on Mar 25, 2010 at 4:00:45 am



Try this.

Open your 44.1 track in Quicktime Pro

Export a new version of the track at 48K.

Put the new version in your 48K timeline in FCP.

see if it is in sync.


David



Peace


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Paul Harb
Re: Still trying to figure out sync issue between camera and audio.
on Mar 25, 2010 at 4:15:34 am

Hey David,

thks for the response, I had tried that already....it was out of sync....read above for what actually ended up coming to light. thks again for the time to help.


Paul

Paul Harb-Producer/Director
Wrong Beach Multimedia
Dual 3.2 GHz Quad/10.5.5/8GIG RAM/FCP 6.0.4/QT 7.5.5



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