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Rec 709 with Redspace

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Anthony DeRose
Rec 709 with Redspace
on Nov 28, 2009 at 11:56:39 pm

I am shooting a student project on the Red and was wondering what is the best way to go about with color and gamma space? We are finishing to HDCAM. Was wondering if using Rec 709 for gamma space and Redspace for color would be a good idea? Will I find any problems with this in post? Or should I just use Rec 709 for both color/gamma? Just that through reading it seems redspace produces better colors then Rec but Rec is best for gamma.

Cheers

http://www.anthonyderose.com


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David Battistella
Re: Rec 709 with Redspace
on Nov 29, 2009 at 12:06:36 am



Depending on which build you are shooint on I would suggest:

GAMMA: REC 709
COLOR: REDSPACE

Of course, all of this can be reset in 5 seconds once the final CC starts (in APple Color, Scratch, or any number of apps that support R3D.

If you are not going back to the R3D for the finish then it is best to process with REC 709 GAMMA for more latitude, REDSPACE gamma is punchier but it my tests, it will clip picture information,

Get a pleasing picture that you can offline with and make sure to use all of the exposure tools available to you.


David



Peace


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Anthony DeRose
Re: Rec 709 with Redspace
on Nov 29, 2009 at 12:37:33 am

Thanks. Very helpful. Using build 20

Cheers

http://www.anthonyderose.com


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Noah Kadner
Re: Rec 709 with Redspace
on Nov 29, 2009 at 4:09:45 am

If you're going out to HDCAM tape, REC 709 would be wisest for color and gamma. What you can see on your monitor and what the tape can actually reproduce are not the same in REDspace but they should be in REC 709.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera! Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
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David Battistella
Re: Rec 709 with Redspace
on Nov 29, 2009 at 4:34:45 am

[Noah Kadner] "If you're going out to HDCAM tape, REC 709 would be wisest for color and gamma."


Why?

Let's say I am grading in Apple Color and I have calibrated system with a Kona 3 card installed, let's also assume I have a broadcast monitor and my fully calibrated system and I am sending my sequence back to FCP for output to my HDCAM SR deck.

No,lLet's just say that I am grading using REDSPACE and REDSPACE because that is what I like and I like the look of what I am getting and that is going to be the final grade.

At this point, what would make switching to REC 709 somehow "wiser"?

Sorry. If you were saying that you were trying to get the most latitude or something I might agree, but I just don't agree with this statement.

David







Peace


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Russell Lasson
Re: Rec 709 with Redspace
on Nov 29, 2009 at 5:35:12 am

For settings while shooting, I suggest using RAW or REC709. REDSPACE brightens the image too much and can lead people to underexpose the image if they don't know what REDSPACE is doing to the monitor output.

For post production processing of dailies, use whatever gamma looks good to you. For color space, I suggest either Camera RGB or REDSPACE. These seem the most natural looking. I'm really not sure what the REC709 color space setting is doing to the image, but IMHO, it looks wacked. Colors don't seem natural at all!

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Color Mill
Salt Lake City, UT
http://www.colormill.net


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gary adcock
Re: Rec 709 with Redspace
on Nov 30, 2009 at 2:49:22 pm

[David Battistella] "At this point, what would make switching to REC 709 somehow "wiser"?
"


I would say simplicity, I would only recommend your workflow if there was a chance of a possible higher end deliverable. This is a totally acceptable process for many clients.


However I think the one thing that all of you are missing is one simple fact in monitoring.

Unless you have a Truly High End professional display (Cinetal or E-Cinema level) that can monitor an True RGB signal - ALL professional color displays default to the viewing the imagery in REC 709 for Gamma and Color as Y'Cb'Cr'.

Why isn't anyone mentioning that?



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL


http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Uli Plank
Re: Rec 709 with Redspace
on Nov 29, 2009 at 9:47:55 am

Using build 20 can limit your possibilities right now, if you don't have access to a grading system that supports it (like Scratch). Apple's Color or Adobe CS4 don't support it yet.

In that case I'd suggest transcoding to ProRes 4444 with the help of REDrushes or Clipfinder to preserve as much color depth as possible. You can do your first-light with any look that you like as long as you are monitoring with a reliable monitor, e.g. a calibrated display via AJA or BM.

Regards,

Uli



Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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