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First RED's delivered yesterday

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Steve Connor
First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 1, 2007 at 7:21:04 am

The first 25 RED cameras were delivered to customers yesterday, now it's real are we allowed to discuss it here?

Frame grabs look amazing, I can't wait to see some real world footage.

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Steve Wargo
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 1, 2007 at 10:38:30 am

Let er rip! We've said all along that we wanted to discuss an actual product in the hands of paying customers, not Peter Jackson.

I'm most interested in workflow.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck


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Bob Zelin
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 2, 2007 at 9:05:30 pm

I've looked at their own user forum (can't wait until Cow starts a RED user forum), and it's like reading a religious group praising Jesus (no offense, anyone). At this point, I'm curious to hear some REAL comments on the camera, and end users experiences.

Bob Zelin


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jiri vrozina
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 3, 2007 at 4:12:55 am

Yeeh,
Stalin would be proud of them..
Does anybody on "that forum" know how to use "cine camera"??


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Steve Wargo
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 3, 2007 at 6:09:17 am

[jiri vrozina] "Does anybody on "that forum" know how to use "cine camera"

I'm sure it comes with an instruction book. My Oakley sunglasses came with a card that explained how to clean the lenses.

Hopefully, it will have a chapter on "Colorbars for Pros"
and "Tone! and what it means to you"

I can't wait for the questions to come rolling in like "Where can I get tripod for $100, including tax?" and "Where does the tape go?"

What I'm amazed by is the fact that there are people charging for classes on "The P2 Workflow".




Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck


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Steve Wargo
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 3, 2007 at 6:21:38 am

Case in point:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/122/857348

Just in case someone thinks I'm overly sarcastic.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck


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Bob Zelin
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 3, 2007 at 1:06:31 pm

Steve writes -
I can't wait for the questions to come rolling in like "Where can I get tripod for $100, including tax?" and "Where does the tape go?"


REPLY -
I wrote a reply to this, and just deleted it, because it was equally insane, and I can't risk telling the details on these forums, in case my client sees it (it is a limited piece of 2k equipment) - but this mindset is ABSOLUTELY out there ! You work in 2k or 4k, and expect to use toys to complete your system.

Bob Zelin


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Tim Kolb
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 3, 2007 at 1:50:36 pm

[Steve Wargo] "I'm most interested in workflow."

Right out of the blocks the workflow seems a little cumbersome (4K post work in general is still very much working around the state of current technology's limitations).

I suspect some other players will get involved and streamline it.

In the meantime, I suspect that many RED users will be delivering 2K and HD footage...nothing wrong with that.




TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


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jan yorick von krogh
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 3, 2007 at 2:51:57 pm

Some of the first customers are:

Mark L. Pederson
http://www.offhollywoodstudios.com/
they shot this weekend with 2 Red Ones, 4 stunt car drivers and 6 stunt cars.
Also they had 4 HVX200 for BTS stuff
Link to photos of their shoot this weekend. http://gallery.mac.com/mikedcurtis/100164#grid
Login : hd4nds
password: mikey
Their Steadycam operators have another photocollection
http://www.steadicamforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6669
And Mike Curtis from hdforindies has a blog for that production as well
http://www.hdforindies.com/

Mike Curtis, of FxPhd and FxGuide.
He has a report what they were shooting in L.A., what they will shoot on Australia and how they collected their red at red HQ under.
http://www.fxguide.com/article445.html

Steven Soderbergh
Here is a production blog of "Guerilia", which he is shooting with Benicio del Toro on Red.
http://noticiasdesanpablodebuceite.blogspot.com/search?q=soderbergh

Logically Jim Jannard himself (he has 5 cameras of the first 25). He is shooting with red in indianapolis at the moment.
Here is one of his first nightshots:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/9_1188758268.jpg

Evin Grant and Tonaci are shooting together wildstyle.
On his website
http://www.evingrant.com/EvinGrant/Spots.html
there is also a photocollection of the first 24h of their red.

Timur Bekmambetov
He is shooting "Wanted" with Angelina Joline and Morgan Freeman on Red and Panavision 35mm.

Users so far include Rodney Charters (24), Peter Jackson (lord of the rings), Mark Neveldine (Crank) and they were quite positive about the camera.

Several rental houses are waiting for their orders. (Otto Nemenz, 6 units, ludwig, 10 units, to name some).

We are waiting for our 3 ordered cameras - ETA is nov/dec.

The camera will certainly be used from a wide range of dps/producers - basicly from skeleton crew to A-budget. In the first batch of delivered cameras however, it seems that most customers are pretty much up the ladder in the industry.










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jiri vrozina
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 3, 2007 at 8:56:26 pm

Let us hope we will hear SOMETHING from first 25 clients...or did they all sign code of silence??...It is Tuesday Down Under..


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Steve Connor
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 3, 2007 at 9:16:43 pm

Ever the cynic eh Jiri? Look around the Red User site and you'll see first pictures and reactions being posted. Look in the most recent posts in Footage/field tests and you'll see a stunning example of the dynamic range of the camera.

Be patient there will be a lot more information coming out over the next few days and weeks I'm sure. There are some industry heavyweights who are impressed by this camera.

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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jiri vrozina
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 4, 2007 at 2:05:43 am

I am yet to read anything from real users.
2 months ago we had SMPTE2007 in Sydney.
I was able to TOUCH F-23....RED was nowhere to be seen.
..then on last day they had outside the venue special conference and screening....
Their marketing of camera is very selective and very well controlled...I am sure of that and their forum as well.
I do not care about 5 stills...I never in my life bought anything without testing it.
WHY can not one test the camera before they buy it??
Steve,i was able to test drive my Merc before I paid for it and it cost me much more then RED.I was able to test Thomson,Sony,Panasonic cameras before I bought it.Why not RED??
Why not to have 5 cameras on each Continent for Test Drive??
Is it insane to ask Billionaire for that?? Is it rude,is it cynical??
No mate,it is very normal to be able to do that.
Where do I get camera serviced if I buy one in Australia??

Good luck to them!


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jan yorick von krogh
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 3, 2007 at 9:51:08 pm

[jiri vrozina] "Let us hope we will hear SOMETHING from first 25 clients..."
You will find plenty of shots in the links above.
In the recent 4 days, the owners and users reported en detail how they did their first shoots, in the red user forum. The footage discussion alone received over 2500 post in the last 4 days.

[jiri vrozina] "or did they all sign code of silence??"
No. Several of them have production blogs (which i linked btw). Two are under NDA afaik - Kenneth Corben and Cut4 Media Group, California.

Universal and Warner (both have full feature movie productions shot on red in production right now) don


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Mads Nybo Jorgensen
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 3, 2007 at 10:04:50 pm

Jan - all this name dropping is useless - how about some USER STORIES! Wait till you have one before opening your mouth any wider.... ;-)

The rest of you - this tit for tat is getting a bit boring.

Good onion on RED getting to market, even if it is only 25 - I wonder if they "could" have waited till after IBC? In any case, if this works, the "market place" will an even funnier place to work in.

Just my 2


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Tim Kolb
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 4, 2007 at 12:15:52 am

I frequent several forums/lists and there is a lot of buzz from some of the new owners. Vince Pace from PACE in LA owns several F23's (yes that is plural), but he has said that he feels the RED will actually compete for his film client's business, whereas he sees the F23 as the best HD camera ever...

There is a difference between those of us who simply tire of hearing about vaporware of all kinds and those who are simply skeptical the camera will work.

I say since it's here, it's real. Now we'll see how people really work with it....push it, break it, love it, hate it.

As much as many of us have simply formed negative opinions based on our weariness of the onslaught of true believers before this thing existed in 3 dimensions (marketing people...remember this is the guy who taught us that it is perfectly plausible to spend 250.00 USD for a pair of sunglasses), now it's here and I am eager to see what it really can do...





TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


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Bob Zelin
what isnt working : First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 4, 2007 at 11:28:02 am

from one of the articles posted -

What isn't working? It has (as of today) no audio recording, no high speed or timelapse options, limited live outputs and no 2K windowing. Serious limitations to be sure, but these will all be software enabled in the coming weeks. It also only currently records to Compact flash the other recording options are also being rolled out in coming weeks


REPLY - I have no idea if this is accurate - I copied it from one of the articles.

Bob Zelin



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Steve Connor
Re: what isnt working : First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 4, 2007 at 11:49:10 am

This is all true, the customers were told about this and given the option to wait, not sure how many did but there are certainly a number out in the wild at the moment. Currently the RED site is down, probably due to bandwidth.

Jiri, I'm sure your questions will be answered in time but as the first cameras are only just being delivered I think you may have to wait a while like us in the UK until there is the possibility of some sort of dealer network.

I know the RED evangalists have annoyed a lot of people but te camera is now "out there" and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it performs.

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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jan yorick von krogh
Re: what isnt working : First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 4, 2007 at 2:11:40 pm

[Steve Connor] "This is all true, the customers were told about this and given the option to wait, not sure how many did but there are certainly a number out in the wild at the moment."
No one waited last friday, all took delivery.

This friday, when the next 25 bodies ship, we will see.

Then comes IBC. Order backlog is pre IBC around half a year if you order now. Will be interesting to see how it will be after IBC.






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Blub06
Re: what isnt working : First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 4, 2007 at 2:29:18 pm

This camera is a blast!

I have never seen such high expectation for, of all things, a camera that shoots video.

The insanely large gap between real and imagined is bound to end the same way all such stories end, disappointment. Thats not to say that the thing will not do essentially what a video camera does, its just that, thats all it will do.

One theme seems to be ground breaking which is odd. Is it price that is ground breaking? Is it quality, size? What is it? Will the DP notice the ground breaking part of things, will the Producer or the audience?

Kodak came out with a study two years ago which said that in order to get a fully accurate digital copy of 35mm film the requirements were for 8.5 K to 9K not 2-4 K. As time goes on the film studios realize that there seem to be endless new sources of income from re purposing their old, new and yet to be made products for the latest technology. Higher quality (film) will always be the choice for films that addresses the future sources of income. When Ridly Scott shoots a film with only RED let me know. When a name DP of features ( not an indy) shoots a film with only RED, let the world know.

What I am saying is, I am just enjoying the show, if RED is the best of video with a workable workflow I'll get a kick out of it along with the rest of you, if its considered a replacement for film I guess thats just for "film makers" who don't care about the future.

By the way, if you guy buys 5 RED cameras rather then 1 does that make them a better person? Are you wiser? Or is it some kind of proof that drinking more of the RED Coolaid is better then drinking less?

I guess I'm a tit for tat kind a guy, with the total absence of any proof that RED is anything other then another video camera, and an odd ball one at that, I am just going to enjoy the hullabaloo.

Chris


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jan yorick von krogh
Re: what isnt working : First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 5, 2007 at 2:57:54 am

[Cow News Droid] "I have never seen such high expectation for, of all things, a camera that shoots video."

I agree.

All Arri and Panavision 65mm and 35mm cameras have had less interest. Let alone their 35mm photochemical devices., as the Studio or Millenium.

Ah, and as you seem to have emotional reactions regarding image aquisition, i


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Steve Wargo
Re: what isnt working : First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 5, 2007 at 6:56:29 am

[jan yorick von krogh] "Kodak is wrong. My study, which is one year and three months better, proves that a 35mm film Asa 500 requires 19.4713K.

At ASA1000, a Kodak Vision 2 raised to 92.7622K resolution. This is incredible! Think about it, at ASA4000 it could even be more!

I honestly think that once that becomes public, Kodak, Hasselblad, Nikon, Casio, Leica, Olympus, Nikon, Sony, Panavision, Arri, and especially Red will adapt film, as its much better than sensor an has additionally no video!

And tall he customers really want to buy film basing cameras!"


What the ...??????????????????????????????????????????

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck


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Blub06
Re: what isnt working : First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 5, 2007 at 6:55:32 pm

I think what he is saying is that my last post fried his brain and, the only way he can make sense of it is to consider it nonsensical. So, he has bested me by going outrageously nonsensical.

I might win the argument but he wins the prize for weird. And, in this world weird carries more weight then being accurate.

Chris


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jan yorick von krogh
Re: what isnt working : First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 4, 2007 at 2:08:09 pm

[Bob Zelin] "What isn't working? It has (as of today) no audio recording, no high speed or timelapse options, limited live outputs and no 2K windowing. Serious limitations to be sure, but these will all be software enabled in the coming weeks. It also only currently records to Compact flash the other recording options are also being rolled out in coming weeks


REPLY - I have no idea if this is accurate - I copied it from one of the articles."


its accurate.
as of now, only 35mm size 4k at 24, 25 and 30p to compact flash. No audio, no timelapse, no s16, no 2/3 support.

red announced that they will ship most of these additional features within the next weeks.

they also indicated that the camera will get many additional updates.



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jan yorick von krogh
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 4, 2007 at 2:04:11 pm

[Mads Nybo Jorgensen] "how about some USER STORIES!"

The user stories can be read in the worldwide mainstream and special interest press as well as in the internet net since march/april, as examples

Title story:
http://www.onfilm.co.nz/July07BIG.jpg
Mainstream press:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=200&objectid=10459920&pnu...

[Mads Nybo Jorgensen] "Jan - all this name dropping is useless"
Its pretty hard to avoid namedropping, if you want user stories, and the early adapters and users are academy award winners as P. Jackson or S. Soderbergh, isn


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donatello
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 4, 2007 at 3:27:10 pm

for those that would like to see if RED could be a tool you could use in appropiate projects & you live in SF,CA area ..
RED 103 should be here around Oct 10 ... once i pick it up - it will be available for testing (free) for about 9 days ... after that it goes private ...

you may contact me ( email under view profile )...

donatello





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Mads Nybo Jorgensen
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 4, 2007 at 3:35:01 pm

Dear Jan.

I'm happy that we got that cleared up.






All the Best
Mads
London, UK

Mac Million Ltd. - HD Production & Editing
Blog: http://blog.myspace.com/bigflopproductions


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jan yorick von krogh
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 5, 2007 at 3:03:14 am

[Mads Nybo Jorgensen] "Dear Jan.

I'm happy that we got that cleared up."


glad to help, mads.

btw, you once were really exicted about a new editing system, the sony xpri, and recommended us to buy it. maybe you remember.

is yours still on sale? we need another 2.





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Steve Wargo
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 5, 2007 at 12:36:07 am

[Cow News Droid] "If you want "open mouth" - then you have to listen to other people than to me. Several Dps/Directors/Vfx Supervisor who used or use Red have expressed their opinion.

"This is the camera I


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jan yorick von krogh
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 5, 2007 at 3:15:43 am

[Steve Wargo] "Don't all of these people have huge crews behing them?"
no.

[Steve Wargo] "My comment all along has been that the RED camera is a "crew" camera."
I rather had the impression that you commented that
- the manufacturer couldn


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Steve Wargo
Re: First RED's delivered yesterday
on Sep 5, 2007 at 4:56:02 am

I don't believe that I'm going to waste an hour answering this post. I'ts uh, like, total DejaVu.

[jan yorick von krogh] "The camera is easily operated solo. A battery last typical >70 min rectime."

OK. And you are recording to what? I want to see you lay down 50 minutes of material and edit it today. Right now!

And how is your audio feed configured? Are you recording eight tracks or twelve? Four? Two? Any?

[jan yorick von krogh] "The camera is lighter, more compact and easier to configurate than our sony 750 or 900r, let alone the elder 900. The older 900 has ~ double the weight of a red. It is larger in size. You should know the menus of the 900 in order to use a 900 (not that important on a red, 4 switches and you


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Steve Wargo
One more thing... (Steve Jobs)
on Sep 5, 2007 at 5:04:08 am

"I don't care what the tool is for the job, but it better work as promised and expected."

author: Steve Wargo
coined in: 1968


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Steve Wargo
I missed these in my other reply
on Sep 5, 2007 at 5:35:33 am

[jan yorick von krogh] "I rather had the impression that you commented that
- the manufacturer couldn


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