FORUMS: list search recent posts

RED or 35mm for green-screening

COW Forums : RED Camera

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
andrew Finch
RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Jul 30, 2009 at 6:08:56 am

If you had the choice to pull green-screen keys from 4k r3d files from a RED one or 2k NON pin registered 2K 35mm film scans, what would your choice be and why.

Thanks!


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Jul 30, 2009 at 6:11:08 pm

Well it depends- is it well-shot green screen? If it's well-shot either is equally fine assuming you know what you're doing in post. Well shot green screen on DV is usable for a good key. Shoot horribly lit green screen even on 65mm IMAX and you'll be in a world of hurt.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!. Unlock the secrets of the 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, and Panasonic DVX100.
http://www.callboxlive.com


Return to posts index

andrew Finch
Re: RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Jul 30, 2009 at 8:52:44 pm

Well nothing has been shot, I'm just trying to chose a format. I'm wondering if the "technically" higher resolution and potentially lower noise/grain of the RED becomes an advantage when keying, or if the tradeoff in latitude makes the format less desirable when trying to work with the keyed footage. Also If I went 35mm it would probably be scanned on a non pin registered scanner (so it would be jumping around a little), whereas the RED obviously would be solid. And if it ends up that the rest of the film is shot on 35mm would it present problems when trying to sell the RED footage as film, or would it not really matter since it is a VFX shot anyway..... so many variables

(and I think IMAX is 70mm isn't it?)

Thanks


Return to posts index


Noah Kadner
Re: RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Jul 30, 2009 at 11:11:03 pm

Well it's arguable on the latitude- really depends where you are keying and what format. DPXs properly derived from well-shot 4K can be equal to 35mm scans. I'd go RED. You can stay purely digital and the money you save on film stock, telecine, scanning and recording, etc you can put toward other stuff in post- like help with keying or color correction. Or shoot a test if you want to but for well-shot footage RED is great.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!. Unlock the secrets of the 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, and Panasonic DVX100.
http://www.callboxlive.com


Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Jul 31, 2009 at 5:54:19 am

Since any well-lit green screen doesn't have very high contrast, you don't need to be concerned about the latitude, the RED has plenty for this.
Not having pin registration might be the bigger problem, if your additional elements are CGI.

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

andrew Finch
Re: RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Jul 31, 2009 at 6:44:06 am

The reason I was asking about the latitude was not in the pulling of the key, but in any other transformations that may need to occur when working with the footage in a general compositing sense. as I understand it there should be less latitude than 35mm dpx would offer, but perhaps that matters less than the un-pin-registered nature of the 35 scans.


Return to posts index


Noah Kadner
Re: RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Jul 31, 2009 at 3:27:36 pm

Yeah I really don't see where latitude is an issue if the DP understands lighting ratios. And again, 35mm and RED have arguably close enough latitude that well-shot material will not be a difference. And yeah- non pin registered is going to kill you next to rock steady digital from the RED.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!. Unlock the secrets of the 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, and Panasonic DVX100.
http://www.callboxlive.com


Return to posts index

Joseph Owens
Re: RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Aug 22, 2009 at 2:31:34 am

Couple of observations having a foot in both worlds:
Dynamic contrast ratio in stops isn't likely going to be a factor strictly from the standpoint of whether it will affect a matte or not. Usually a green screen is shot under tightly controlled circumstances, so what you put in the set is your problem, not like there is sunlight sparkling off the wavetops or whatever.

EI index will enter into the equation since it affects stop, which determines your depth of field -- that will affect your fg/bg focal planes.
It also dictates grain, and consequent edge busy-ness.

Even if there is weave in Original Camera negative: two words -- "image stabilization".

And now a word about "rolling shutter". The individual cameras will both give you issues characteristic of how the light is admitted to the photoreceptor -- a spinning prism will yield a mixed blur at the trailing edge of a moving object in film... compression and the bayer pattern will give you a different challenge.

Zeiss prime on a film camera? Plastic crap on the RED? Choose your poison.

Ultimately, though, what makes a composite work is the match between the foreground and background plates -- either they have to blend perfectly -- colorimetry, focus, relative motion... all those things -- as if it was composed "in camera" -- or you are simply cementing objects together like bad editing.

jPo


This IS my blog!


Return to posts index

Charlie Bregg
Re: RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Aug 21, 2009 at 12:56:36 am

Imax is 65mm horizontal. 70mm is print stock for large format films.
All current film transfer systems use electronic pin registration which makes the 35mm images rock steady.
I just shot a job on the RED with the new RED primes and the camera looks great and the lenses are top notch and tack sharp. My only complaint with the lenses is that the focus distance numbers were not accurate when set at the lens witness mark. That makes it impossible to get a spot on focus when using a measuring tape so we had to use the 2X on the RED Eye to get sharp focuses. This was very critical as it was a night shoot and we were shooting at T1.8 - T2.0, rating the camera at ASA 250. I am a big fan of the RED and even though the RED is 4K up to 30 fps, 35mm is still the mac daddy.


Return to posts index


Russell Lasson
Re: RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Aug 21, 2009 at 4:20:34 am

[Charlie Bregg] " My only complaint with the lenses is that the focus distance numbers were not accurate when set at the lens witness mark."

How far off were the lenses? An inch or two or more like a foot?

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Color Mill
Salt Lake City, UT
http://www.colormill.net


Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: RED or 35mm for green-screening
on Aug 27, 2009 at 4:53:41 am

Did you check the back-focus?

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]