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How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?

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Sean Kapleton
How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 28, 2009 at 7:28:46 am

Just curious what you guys recommend for slow motion 4k footage in a majority 23.98 project...right now it plays back regular speed after my innitial redrushes 1080 conform. I was thinking to use ae to make these clips 23.98 like the majority of the footage while getting the slow-mo look right on those clips.

Thanks in advance just curious to hear opinions on workflows for this and any other such related operations.

Cheers



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David Battistella
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 28, 2009 at 1:06:56 pm



Was the footage shot in slow motion. IE: With a 23.98 time base and shot at 30fps (that is the maximum slow motion for 4K)

or

Do you want to slow down 4K footage shot 23.98 @ 24fps.

if that is what you want to do then I would suggest using shake or motion to do the slow motion as it can interpolate the frames better than FCP with uses frame doubling to create slow motion.



Peace
Check out my new web series.
http://www.ripperhockey.com


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Sean Kapleton
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 28, 2009 at 5:01:22 pm

Hey there

I am being told that it actually was shot 60 & 90 just like 10 clips out of the majority 23.98 - i am thinking to just use cinemaTools to convert to 23.98 which will then make the footage playback "properly" in slowmo and this will go superf ast as opposed to using AE to do this process...

any other thoughts from people?

thank you

sean



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Noah Kadner
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 28, 2009 at 7:12:50 pm

If we're talking about RED footage- you shouldn't need to run any CinemaTools on it, the proxies will play back according to the timebase used when they were shot and the R3Ds too. Drop them onto a 23.98 project and it should work fine.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!. Unlock the secrets of the 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, and Panasonic DVX100.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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Sean Kapleton
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 28, 2009 at 8:15:36 pm

yes RED footage of course...used cinema tools and now the clips are 23.98 and playback in slow-mo as they were meant to.

Are you saying that even though they are 60 & 90 fps in quicktime after redrushes 1080 ProRes (HQ) renders i should just bring them into my 23.98 project and when i drop them in they will play slow-mo after rendering?

thanks

sean



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Noah Kadner
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 29, 2009 at 4:10:32 am

Really- that sounds like a mistake in shooting. Your supposed to set your base frame rate so that clips know which speed to play back at. But conforming in CT is one way to fix that.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!. Unlock the secrets of the 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, and Panasonic DVX100.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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David Battistella
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 29, 2009 at 12:53:14 pm



The RED shoots slo-mo like film.

Let's say film camera's native rate is 24FPS

Over cranking to 48 FPS means that you expose twice as many frames.

When you play back material shat at 48fps at 24 fps, you are watching twice the information. You are actually recording more frames.

In RED it's the same thing it's capturing all of the frames (but digitally).

The lesson is this if the project frame rate is 23.98 and you shot 90fps (at 2k by the way not at 4K) then you drop it into a 23.98 timeline and it plays back the frames you shot at that time base.


David




Peace
Check out my new web series.
http://www.ripperhockey.com


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Sean Kapleton
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 30, 2009 at 2:10:35 pm

hey guys thanks for the responses

so my question now is whether or not it was incorrect to convert the 59.94 4k stuff to 23.98 in cinema tools to match the rest of the regular speed 23.98 4k material in this project...will it cause any issues / should i have just dropped the slow-mo 59.94 material into my 23.98 timeline as david describes??

thanks in advance

sean



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David Battistella
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 30, 2009 at 2:43:41 pm



Here is my question.

What frame size(4K, 3K, 2K) and frame rate was shot at 59.94?

You will have major issues mixing material shot at 59.94 or 23.98


David





Peace
Check out my new web series.
http://www.ripperhockey.com


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Sean Kapleton
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 30, 2009 at 3:40:19 pm

all 4k and the small amount of slow-mo stuff (about 15 shots) IS AT 59.94 in quicktime when i play back the redResuhes renders...so now to get it to playback properly in slo motion i used CT to convert to 23.98 so now everything in py project is 23.98 and seemingly plays back correctly...thoughts?



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David Battistella
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 30, 2009 at 3:50:28 pm



Why do people switch timebase settings for a project. There is a big misconception about how SLOMO works and I have seen many people in Camera departments thinkn that they have to be in 59.94 in slo mo.

This is a problem that seems to have started with SONY camera's and drifted over to RED.

Please. NEVER. change the TIMEBASE in any project. It is a nightmare.

You could still shoot the MAX 4K slomo (30fps) in a 23.98 timebase with NO ISSUES!

David



Peace
Check out my new web series.
http://www.ripperhockey.com


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Sean Kapleton
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 30, 2009 at 7:59:59 pm

Hey David

not sure that answered my previous post...its shot and in the can and I am just the post end of this i will however pass that info along to the DP & AC on that project if I get a chance to do so in a kind / non-confrontational way : )

Now for what I actually have and what I did can you or anyone address that so i can just be sure to continue with this project...

we have already done the conversion and begun editing so i just want to make sure what I did wont bite me in the ass down the line...we do not plan to go back to the r3d for grading in color - i did full quality HQ's in RedRushes...

thanks

Sean



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Noah Kadner
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 30, 2009 at 11:14:33 pm

No there's nothing technically wrong with conforming the footage back to 23.98 in CinemaTools. All you're doing is telling the metadata clip to play back the frames you shot in a different timebase. But the trick to tell the DP for next time is don't mess with the shooting time base as it's totally unnecessary to get slow mo and high-speed for this camera. Use Varispeed for high-speed and slow motion effects. It's all well-explained in RED's official operations guide.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!. Unlock the secrets of the 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, and Panasonic DVX100.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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David Battistella
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Aug 1, 2009 at 1:33:45 am


Sean,

Was not riffing on you. Just seen this too many times.


Peace.
David


Peace
Check out my new web series.
http://www.ripperhockey.com


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Uli Plank
Re: How to handle slowmo footage (60 & 90 fps) in 23.98 majority sequence / project?
on Jul 31, 2009 at 5:48:54 am

4K can't be more than 30 fps.

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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