FORUMS: list search recent posts

Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow

COW Forums : RED Camera

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Jacquie Macri
Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Jun 8, 2009 at 3:17:58 am

Hi everyone,

This is my first time posting! I'm putting together an edit suite for myself in order to edit RED Camera footage. This material may be broadcast. Other than that, I plan to do wedding, corporate and short film festival videos.

I've done as much research as I can the past couple of weeks... but I need to order soon and I still have questions.

Here's what I'm planning to get:

Mac Pro 8-core 2.26GHz, 640GB SATA, 512MB GT 120
12GB RAM upgrade
1TB x3 to make for a RAID 0 (I want speed - I plan to back up on external drives)
Two 24inch Apple Displays
One Samsung 24inch LCD Display (1920x1080) as a reference monitor
Final Cut Pro Studio 2
(Possibly After Effects & Possibly ProTools)


Based on that, I'd need:

Another video graphics card for the third monitor
Another mini DisplayPort to dual-link DVI adapter for the third monitor
Either Matrox MXO or AJA io Express to view the HD footage in the reference monitor (for colour correction and as a client monitor).


So the big question I have right now is, should I go with the MXO or the AJA io Express? Or something else entirely?

And ANY other suggestions, information, links to appropriate threads would be most welcome. I'd love to research more, but I do have to buy a system soon.

Thanks!
Jacquie




Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Jun 8, 2009 at 7:55:14 am

– Monitor:
Well, first of all, the Samsung is not really a reference monitor. If you can't afford a serious broadcast unit (maybe Flanders Scientific?), get a good plasma from Panasonic and carefully adjust your MXO (or whatever you buy).

– Video card:
Until now, ATI cards are working better than NVidia with Apple's Color. I have no experience with the GT 120, but try to get other's opinions on it. It seems that the ATI 4870 rocks with Color, we are using the 3870 with it and it's quite nice.

– Video I/O:
You may want to have a look at the MXO Mini, it's a very flexible solution which you could use with a laptop on location too.

– Second video card:
Color doesn't support a second video card. You'll have to work with two monitors on one card plus the reference video output via MXO/AJA/BM.

– RAID:
Your system looks fine, but why not get a CalDigit RAID card and build an internal RAID 5? Makes you feel much more relaxed than a striped RAID. Speed should be plenty for REDCode and ProRes HQ, and since you didn't mention film-out, there's not much reason to go uncompressed.External backup will still be needed, but you'll be up and running again much faster in case of a disk failure.

Hope this helps,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

Jacquie Macri
Re: Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Jun 8, 2009 at 12:43:15 pm

Hi Uli,

Thanks for the response. One question though - you said:


Color doesn't support a second video card. You'll have to work with two monitors on one card plus the reference video output via MXO/AJA/BM.



So I don't need a second video card even though I have a 3rd monitor? I'll just need an additional display port or dual link DVI to attach the monitor via the MXO/AJA/BM?

Cheers,
Jacquie


Return to posts index


Graeme Nattress
Re: Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Jun 8, 2009 at 2:34:20 pm

Also, worth looking at the RED Rocket card, coming soon.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Jun 10, 2009 at 3:23:12 am

wedding with the RED Camera ? Wow, maybe I will have to get married again -

you write -
I'm putting together an edit suite for myself in order to edit RED Camera footage. This material may be broadcast. Other than that, I plan to do wedding, corporate and short film festival videos.

REPLY - you do realize that you will be shooting 4k and 2k media, which has to be transcoded to a workable format like ProRes422HQ. The RED is a little overkill for weddings and corporate videos, if all you want to do is 720p or 1080i.


Here's what I'm planning to get:
Mac Pro 8-core 2.26GHz, 640GB SATA, 512MB GT 120
12GB RAM upgrade
REPLY - that is a lot of RAM for FCP ! Doing a lot of After Effects work with a lot of rendering ?


1TB x3 to make for a RAID 0 (I want speed - I plan to back up on external drives)
REPLY - this is plently for ProRes422HQ, but you won't be able to do native 4K, 2K or even uncompressed HD - if you care about that. A much wiser choice is an external drive array, from one of the countless manufacturers who make external RAID 5 arrays. This costs more money, but if you are buying a full RED Camera package with the lenses, perhaps you have the money to do it right.

Two 24inch Apple Displays
REPLY - Apple no longer makes the 23" Cinema display. The 24" LED is mini display port only. The other port is a DVI. Apple does not make a 24" DVI monitor - only a 30" DVI monitor. Perhaps you should consider 2 Dell 2408 WFP, and a mini display port to DVI adaptor.

One Samsung 24inch LCD Display (1920x1080) as a reference monitor
REPLY - this is a terrible choice. Consider a professional monitor if you value your RED footage. You are spending all this money. Buy a real montior like a Panasonic BTLH2550, a JVC DTV24L3DU, or if you dont' want to spend that much, get a Panasonic Plasma like a TH42PH11UK for about $900.

Final Cut Pro Studio 2
(Possibly After Effects & Possibly ProTools)


Based on that, I'd need:

Another video graphics card for the third monitor
REPLY - the third monitor gets driven by your video product (AJA, Matrox, etc. - not a video graphics card). Your MAC will have 2 ports on it - one mini display port, one DVI port. Your third montior (TV monitor) goes to your AJA or Matrox product.



Another mini DisplayPort to dual-link DVI adapter for the third monitor
REPLY - nope !


Either Matrox MXO or AJA io Express to view the HD footage in the reference monitor (for colour correction and as a client monitor).
REPLY - you are working with a RED camera. Don't you want to do hi end HD ? You need an AJA Kona 3. The I/O Express cannot handle 2K ever. The I/O Express cannot up or down convert. You are looking to save money in the wrong places. And you don't mean the MXO - you mean the MXO2. The correct answer is the AJA Kona 3 for RED.



So the big question I have right now is, should I go with the MXO or the AJA io Express? Or something else entirely?
REPLY - the AJA Kona 3. If you are doing lo end videos (like weddings) you dont' need a RED One camera in the first place. If you are doing professional work, that requires the RED, buy the right equipment. You will need an AJA Kona 3, you will need a real monitor, you will need a large RAID 5 drive array.

Bob Zelin





Return to posts index

Jacquie Macri
Re: Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Jun 10, 2009 at 10:21:12 pm

First off, thanks for all the info. You've brought a lot of important questions to my attention.

To clarify, I meant to say that I will be editing RED footage for someone else, but not buying a RED Camera myself. My work with RED will be limited. I'll be doing the wedding & corporate videos with my own HD camera.

Now to the nitty gritty!

You said:
1TB x3 to make for a RAID 0 - "this is plenty for ProRes422HQ, but you won't be able to do native 4K, 2K or even uncompressed HD."

My question is:
If I shoot with my HD camera, import as ProRes422HQ, on-line with ProRes422HQ and compress it for output to blue ray, do I ever really need to see uncompressed HD? ...I haven't used ProRes422HQ but it seems like it could take me through all stages of editing.


Thank you for your suggestion on monitors. So I'll get:
2 Dell 2408 WFP as my computer monitors
1 Panasonic Plasma TH42PH11UK as a reference monitor connected to mac pro via matrox

The mac pro comes standard with 1 mini display port and 1 DVI port.
Since both of those are going to be used up with the 2 Dell monitors, I would need to get another DVI port on the mac tower to connect to the DVI port on the Matrox. As per their website "Matrox MXO patent-pending technology uses the DVI port on your Mac computer". Just to confirm... right?

Now, the truth is, I'm going to be working with your regular, run of the mill HD, most of the time. Rarely will I be working with RED footage and even then, the on-line will likely be done in a professional post house. So what I really need is a way to view HD footage on the Plasma monitor. In that case, the MXO would do, would it not?

Just to be clear on this as well, I believe the MXO to be a hardware device that will allow me to see the image I am working on in FCP. So for example, if I am editing or adjusting colour on a clip in FCP, I will be able to see that image via the MXO (on the panasonic monitor) without having to render it in FCP. That is the reason I'm be getting the MXO. Feel free to tell me I'm bonkers (and explain why please).

I think that covers it. If you have time to address any of this, I'd be grateful.
Cheers,
Jacquie







Return to posts index


Bob Zelin
Re: Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Jun 11, 2009 at 12:22:01 am

I will respond to your questions, but I would like to first apologize to the esteemed RED forum, as these are not appropriate questions for the RED forum -

you write -
2K or even uncompressed HD."

My question is:
If I shoot with my HD camera, import as ProRes422HQ, on-line with ProRes422HQ and compress it for output to blue ray, do I ever really need to see uncompressed HD? ...I haven't used ProRes422HQ but it seems like it could take me through all stages of editing.

REPLY - you will see HD footage - as ProRes422HQ or DVCProHD. NO, you DO NOT need to see uncompressed HD. My guess is that your HD camera is shooting some form of compressed HD anyway. Not unless you have a Sony F900 series HD Camera.


Thank you for your suggestion on monitors. So I'll get:
2 Dell 2408 WFP as my computer monitors
1 Panasonic Plasma TH42PH11UK as a reference monitor connected to mac pro via matrox

REPLY - well, if it was my nickel, I would buy the AJA product.


The mac pro comes standard with 1 mini display port and 1 DVI port.
Since both of those are going to be used up with the 2 Dell monitors, I would need to get another DVI port on the mac tower to connect to the DVI port on the Matrox. As per their website "Matrox MXO patent-pending technology uses the DVI port on your Mac computer". Just to confirm... right?

REPLY -
NO NO NO. You will need to get an Apple mini display port to DVI adatpor. Now you have 2 standard DVI ports. Plug these two into your 2 Dell 2408WFP monitors. Your Matrox MXO2 or AJA I/O HD will hookup to your Firewire 800 port. You are NOT getting an MXO - this is an output product - you are getting a Matrox MXO2. If it was my money, I would buy the AJA Kona LHi, which will give you every analog and digital input and output you could possibly think of. You can do everything with this $1500 card, except output to 2K, which you are not doing. And it won't tie up your FW800 port on your MAC Pro. DO NOT BUY THE MATROX MXO. If you insist on Matrox, get the MXO2.


So what I really need is a way to view HD footage on the Plasma monitor. In that case, the MXO would do, would it not?

REPLY - the Plasma monitor is a way for you to accurately see your HD footage. Its dramatically better than any "computer" screen. You have clients, right ? These clients will want to see a beautiful image - you will get this from the Panasonic Plasma - you will not get this from an inexpensive computer LCD screen.


Like I said, if it was my money, I would get the AJA Kona LHi. Save yourself some money, and aggrivation.

bob Zelin







Return to posts index

Jacquie Macri
Re: Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Jun 11, 2009 at 1:10:28 am

Ah, that clears things up with the firewire 800.

AJA KonaLHi - ok.

Thanks for your help on this. I initially posted this in the FCP beginner forum but it got moved here because I mentioned RED.

Cheers,
Jacquie


Return to posts index

Ritesh Krishnamurthy
Re: Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Aug 7, 2009 at 3:55:21 pm

Hi,
Is it necessary to get monitors like the ACD 23" or Dell 2408WFP for editing RED footage on FCP? Wouldn't it suffice to get any two 1920x1080 monitors (say LG) for editing, and using a pro setup for color correction / reference monitoring? (Pro setup = Kona3 + Panasonic BTLH1700WE or MXO2+Panasonic Plasma TV)

ritesh


Return to posts index

Russell Lasson
Re: Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Aug 7, 2009 at 4:28:42 pm

[Ritesh Krishnamurthy] "Is it necessary to get monitors like the ACD 23" or Dell 2408WFP for editing RED footage on FCP?"

No. They're nice monitors, but any computer monitor is fine. Even a 15" CRT vga monitor would work if you could just connect it to your computer.

[Ritesh Krishnamurthy] "using a pro setup for color correction / reference monitoring? (Pro setup = Kona3 + Panasonic BTLH1700WE or MXO2+Panasonic Plasma TV) "

Not sure if I consider the MXO2+Panasonic Plasma a pro solution, but you're right, for color you want a broadcast video output to a calibrated broadcast monitor.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Color Mill
Salt Lake City, UT
http://www.colormill.net


Return to posts index

Ritesh Krishnamurthy
Re: Need suggestions for edit suite set up/work flow
on Aug 18, 2009 at 1:37:47 am

Hi Russell,
I've ordered the Dell 2209WA. Will plan for the Kona3+Pro monitor.

Thanks,
Ritesh


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]