FORUMS: list search recent posts

Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?

COW Forums : RED Camera

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Simon Dybeck
Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 15, 2009 at 6:10:57 pm

Hi! I got some questions about the Red Workflow on a Mac with FCP that I havent found any answers too.
When I open a Red full Proxy in Quicktime it shows that the bitrate is around 220mbit/s. When I use Log & Transfer in FCP to transcode into ProRes it makes files with bitrates around 800 mbit/s!
How come? In my mind it should be smaller or at least equal.
How do I fix this?

Recently we did shoot a musicvideo with different resolutions and framerates. We have 2k with 50-120fps, 3k with 50fps and 4k with 25fps. We thought that we could use the M proxies and when we were done with the editing we would reconnect them to the H or even F proxies.
When I made a test by putting the clips with our different resolutions and framerates on the same timeline it didnt work so well. We didnt get any slow-motion on the high-fps clips and it was awfully laggy even though I have a MacbookPro 2,53ghz from november 2008.
Does someone know any better workflow for our mixed format editing?

I have opened up some red material that is shot with 50fps and 100fps. When I drop it into a 25fps timeline the 50fps plays in 25fps and the 100fps plays in 50fps. To get their real framerate I have to change the speed to 50%.
Why is it like this and how do I fix it?
Also the 100fps clips lists as 50fps in Quicktime and FCP. Why doesnt it say 100fps?

We need to get going soon with the editing so any help is deeply appreciated!


Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 16, 2009 at 12:08:01 pm

If slo-mo footage is not opening correctly, your camerafolks made a mistake in project settings. You can re-conform as ProRes in Cinema Tools.

If you are editing so many different formats, I'd rather convert everything to ProRes before going into the timeline. Clipfinder (free) is very helpful for this.


And, BTW, a MacBook Pro doesn't really cut it for RED footage, only for offlining.

Did you read the whitepaper on FCS from RED's website?

Hope this helps,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

Simon Dybeck
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 16, 2009 at 1:05:30 pm

Hi
Thanks for your post. Well actually it was me and my friends who made the filming. We set the proper resolution to use higher fps and turned on Varispeed and scrolled the fps to 50fps and so on. Is there something more you must do to get it to work properly in the computer?

Well for now the only thing we have now is 3 quite new MacBook Pros to edit and conform in.

What do you think is the problem when ProRes in Log & Transter becomes bigger than the original r3d-files?



Return to posts index


Uli Plank
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 16, 2009 at 2:08:31 pm

The important question is: What was your project setting in the camera? That's independent of the shooting speed, it's more like the speed of a projector in analog cinema.

To judge if you have any chance with your MacBooks:

- What's the shooting ratio?
- Which format for delivery?
- How long will the film be?
- How much time do you have?

ProRes can be bigger than RED footage. Please remember that R3D is not debayered (i.e. kind of black and white) and that we are talking about a very complex compression scheme, which is not really efficient for editing. I'll check our speeds when I'm back in the studio.

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

Simon Dybeck
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 16, 2009 at 2:25:38 pm

We shot in 2:1, delivery will be for internet and TV, maybe HDTV. Its a musicvideo and we have shot 3 hours of material. We need to be done in 4 weeks, but we have a timeline we can follow so the when we get to editing it will go fast.



Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 16, 2009 at 3:18:24 pm

Duration of the final product?
Will you do grading in Color?

Regarding data-rates, there's something wrong. R3D will be either around 224 mbps (28 MByte per second) or 288 (36 MBps).

My ProRes files in HQ are around 200 to 220 mbps. Please check the info in QT player:

- Which fps number do you see ?
- Which size ?

I'll try to help, but you need to give me very detailed information. The RED is not like any point-and-shoot camera…

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index


Simon Dybeck
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 16, 2009 at 3:34:50 pm

It will be 3 minutes and 20 seconds. I dont think we will be using Color becuase we havent used it before.
When I convert in FCP Log & Transfer it makes a file with this quicktime info: http://enelesfilm.se/ovrigt/red.png



Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 16, 2009 at 4:37:44 pm

OK, I can see the problem now. You'll be fine, don't worry.

First of all, you are decoding 3K, which is currently not properly supported by L&T (see whitepaper). You are getting such a high datarate since you are decoding to 3K and 50 fps. The latter also explains why you are not getting the slo-mo you expect.

I'd suggest the following: Get Clipfinder (free from H.G. Daun) and transcode all your footage to a light codec (like DVCProHD) and the size of 1280 x 720. This will run smoothly on any MacBook.

I believe you are finishing as 25 fps – I suppose that if you go to TV, you to to European TV, since you are obviously Scandinavian. Whatever is not showing 25 fps for info needs to be conformed to 25 fps with the help of Cinema Tools after transcode (open as clip, not as project).

Do an offline edit (you should see your slo-mo now), export an XML and use Clipfinder to make the online version as 1920 by 1080 in ProRes HQ. You can make adjustments to the look at that stage with the well integrated functions of RA. Then finish in FCP.

BTW, if you can read some German, I can send you an early version of my manual.

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

Simon Dybeck
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 17, 2009 at 12:26:05 pm

Thank you very much! I will get into this tomorrow at work. Actually I havent worked with offlining/onlining before but I will try what you suggests. Even though I dont speak german I could try to use a translator site if you would send the manual. All help from you is deeply appreciated!



Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 17, 2009 at 3:10:23 pm

I don't think a translator site will be appropriate.

But I extended my Cow's friendship to you, so if you send me your Email, I'll send a graphical overview in English.

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

Simon Dybeck
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 17, 2009 at 4:49:50 pm

Thank you very much! My email is info@enelesfilm.se



Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 17, 2009 at 5:37:36 pm

Careful with posting your email like this!
It can be grazed by robots. Better use a strange way of spelling…

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

Simon Dybeck
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 17, 2009 at 6:06:23 pm

Thanks! Good tip.
I tried the workflow you posted before and it seems to be working well, I only have some small problems.

Because I have filmed in 2:1 format the picture isnt shown correctly in the DVCPROHD sequence.
If I change it to the right aspect ratio in the sequence settings I cant play due to a red render bar.
Here is a picture: http://enelesfilm.se/ovrigt/sequence.png

After editing I exported an XML, conformed it in Clipfinder. Then I opened the new XML in FCP and changed the sequence resolution to the correct one. Exported that and everytinhg looks great.

The only problem I can see here is that because I have different resolutions like 2k, 3k and 4k filmed some of the clips will be zoomed in or out when Conforming in Clipfinder with the _F proxies. Will I then have to go and change the Scale setting of each clip manually in FCP?



Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 17, 2009 at 6:39:47 pm

It will be much easier if you batch convert in Clipfinder, and it can scale/crop too (even better than FCP). With 2:1 footage, you only have the option to crop the sides or leave it slightly letterboxed if you go to HDTV.

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

Simon Dybeck
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 17, 2009 at 7:32:50 pm

How do I do a batch convert in Clipfinder? I cant find anything about in the Help files for the program.



Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 17, 2009 at 7:53:41 pm

Just put more than one clip into the list…

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

Simon Dybeck
Re: Some mixed questions about the Red Workflow with FCP?
on May 17, 2009 at 8:01:28 pm

Yes ok, so that will make say 1080p exports that I can import with a xml into fcp to export as a whole movie. Thank you!



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]