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Red 120 FPS Footage

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Mike Zimbard
Red 120 FPS Footage
on Apr 25, 2009 at 2:01:08 pm

I'll be receiving RED footage this week that the prod company will shoot 2K @120 FPS. Once I know the amount of footage they've shot, I'll decide whether I want to transcode everything to ProRes first or go the proxy route in Final Cut and then transcode the locked edit. I've tried both methods before with 23.976 RED footage, but never have been given anything "overcranked." Can some of the RED gurus out offer some advice on combining 2K 120 fps footage with 2K 23.976 footage?

If I go the proxy route, what easy setup I should be using in Final Cut? Do I just use my AJA KONA 3- RED 2K x 1024 psf 23.98 REDCODE easy setup and then Final Cut plays the footage back slow? Am I able to combine 23.976 footage and 120 fps footage on the same timeline?

Or is it easiest to go the transcode route and convert everything to 23.976 in Log and Transfer overnight? If I do this, is there anything to be aware of to make sure that L&T converts the overcranked footage properly? Are there some "gotchas" to be aware of? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

- Mike



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gary adcock
Re: Red 120 FPS Footage
on Apr 25, 2009 at 2:47:34 pm

[Mike Zimbard] " I've tried both methods before with 23.976 RED footage, but never have been given anything "overcranked." Can some of the RED gurus out offer some advice on combining 2K 120 fps footage with 2K 23.976 footage? "

Mike,
Whats the big deal? Shooting 120fps footage means that the DP wanted to playback 5x slower than normal, if done correctly by your DP, the footage should play in a standard 23.98 timeline. The only issue might be the large amount of trimming/ cutting to get the footage to a viewable point. You should not have other issues with the footage.

As for your workflow- what are you delivering? if you are worried about things with R3D files and you are not delivering anything larger that 1080- Transcode in to ProRes and edit without worries for the first project, get your hands around the workflow then start expanding your knowledge.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Mike Zimbard
Re: Red 120 FPS Footage
on Apr 25, 2009 at 4:31:56 pm

Gary - as always your input is very insightful. I wasn't meaning to make it sound like a big deal, but I did want to make sure that if I brought the 120 fps quicktime proxy files into Final Cut that I would not need to render on a 23.98 timeline since I would be mixing framerates. Our machines are the early 2008 3.2 Octo Cores with 8 GB of RAM all in an XSAN 2 with 4 Promise Raids and 2 Quad Core XServes as the PMDC and SMDC and a 3rd Quad Core XServe acting as our file server. Running Final Cut 6.0.5, latest Kona Drivers, and QT 7.6.

Your answer sparked a couple additional questions. First off this will actually only be an SD finish for now so I think your ProRes suggestion will be fine. in terms of the batch transcoding do you prefer using Final Cut L&T method or do like using RED rushes? I know that L&T doesn't allow me to transcode to 1920x1080 size, but I'm not too worried about that for this job. Additionally, when I do transcode to ProRes should I be turning all of the 120 fps footage into 23.976 so that all shots have the same frame rate (with my original 120 fps clips obviously playing back much slower)? This is what I used to do with Varicam Footage that was shot at 60, but was mixed with 23.976 shots in Final Cut - I would use the FRC to conform everything to the same rate. Please let me know your thoughts on this.

Thanks again for the help.

- Mike





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gary adcock
Re: Red 120 FPS Footage
on Apr 25, 2009 at 4:30:27 pm

[Mike Zimbard] "but I did want to make sure that if I brought the 120 fps quicktime proxy files into Final Cut that I would not need to render on a 23.98 timeline since I would be mixing framerates"

OK
your misconception is that you are mixing frame rates. When shooting overcranked or undercranked footage the intent is to have the content mix with the original 23.98.

This is not the same as mixing frame rates like dropping a 23.98 into a 29.97 timeline, this is from the film world and the technique is used to take objects out of real time and is NOT a mixed frame rate.
You will not need to render because of the highspeed capture.

" I know that L&T doesn't allow me to transcode to 1920x1080 size,"

In 4K when you shoot what is called QuadHD in the RED, L&T does create 1920x1080 directly.

[Mike Zimbard] "in terms of the batch transcoding do you prefer using Final Cut L&T method or do like using RED rushes?"

to get to 1080 yes you will need to use RedRushes. ( 720 would work for an SD finish also)

"This is what I used to do with Varicam Footage that was shot at 60, but was mixed with 23.976 shots in Final Cut - I would use the FRC to conform everything to the same rate."

NO FRC needed here- the difference here is there are not any frames to remove so your footage for all intents and purpose is 23.98 --you will not see the footage at anytime as 120fps, just very slow moving 23.98.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Mike Zimbard
Re: Red 120 FPS Footage
on Apr 25, 2009 at 7:29:29 pm

Very helpful explanation Gary. Makes total sense. Thanks again!





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gary adcock
Re: Red 120 FPS Footage
on Apr 26, 2009 at 12:42:21 am

[Mike Zimbard] "Makes total sense. Thanks again! "

You are welcome.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Joshua Porter
Re: Red 120 FPS Footage
on May 6, 2009 at 7:25:45 pm

There were some issues while using an panasonic HDX 900 with variable frame rates, 23.94 and 60p. Also editing with FCP. I needed to use the 60p settings for the sequence settings when editing both on timeline. Using the slow 23.94 settings made the 60p files jumpy.

Edit with the higher frame rate settings.



Joshua Porter
Producer/Director/DP
I AMedia
http://www.visions2video.com


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David Battistella
Re: Red 120 FPS Footage
on May 6, 2009 at 10:26:36 pm

Joshua,

I fail to see what your post is adding to this thread?

David




Peace


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