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The Red Camera/FCP workflow

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thesunflower
The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 18, 2007 at 9:54:18 pm

Everyone here is all a flutter about this little red monster. My name for it since I have to figure out the work flow... how on earth do I get the media from the camera into a FCP timeline and how long with that take for a 18 day/ 10 hour a day shoot? I mean, "go team" and all, but I'm at a loss! Any help would be awesome!

Thanks

jmo


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donatello
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 19, 2007 at 2:06:48 am

18 day shoot ??
i have to say if it was a short project i would say go for it but 18 days of shooting ???? if 4k finish depends on what kind of resources you have available - which usually comes down to $$$$ ... 50/50 here -would take alot of work and will be all up hill ...

where are you located ?
when does the project start pre-production /shooting ?
( if you are shooting next week vs. 2 months from now could make a huge difference )

if you've read any of the post here then you know you are in new territory ... you'll have to do leg work and make the decision ...

i have not seen any post on any board where somebody is doing a feature ( except for the few BIG features that have the big $$$$$$$$$$ ) ... most RED projects that i've seen posted have been music video, commercials, shorts ... but they might have some insight ? there are many owners over at http://www.reduser.net/forum/index.php

Silverado ( they have a post below )- they have Red camera's and they have done some editing - they might have some answers ...

you could try http://www.hdforindies.com and see what Mike has to say on subject ...

be sure to listen to all advice and make your own decision ..

















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thesunflower
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 19, 2007 at 5:12:02 pm

Thanks very much for the input. We don't start shooting until Oct. 5th so I do have some time to work it out. We are setting up an Xsan with roughly 50 terabytes of storage... once striped, we should have about 28 - 30 tb to use. The end user will be receiving a HD-DVD... yep...I know.. what's the point then?!

If anyone else has any thoughts on this, I'm totally open!



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donatello
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 19, 2007 at 8:32:33 pm

Oct 5 start .. so this is a we are shooing with RED = you have to find a workflow ..you will be sort of alone out there in new territory ...

then the camera is coming from one of the first 51 Reds ..
get some raw clips from the owner ( and some Red Alert tips) and give em a try out ...
you might consider converting the Raw files into HD proRes 4:2:2 files ?

i had read there's something about taking the raw clips into RedAlert and putting a QT wrapper on them (will need newest update on QT 7.2?) - then you have access to either 1k or 2k proxy files to edit in FCP TL ?? don't know if it is availble today ?? only have seen a few post about it ?????

i don't know how time consuming it is to put a QT wrapper on a Raw file nor do i know exactly how long it takes to convert to ProRes files .... but i would guess at least 3-1 for proRes on a new duo core Mac tower ...





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Bob Zelin
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 20, 2007 at 1:56:42 am

Hi -
Please remember that I know nothing, and I am just compiling information from what I am reading and researching.

Rob Lohman is writing a program for Red called RedCine which will help out in the editing workflow, but for now, only one software program exists to do the file conversion from the RAW 4K RED files down to usable files for Final Cut Pro. This program is called Red Alert! Redcine will be the more efficient program to translate the raw RED files into ProRes422 (for example), but this program does not exist yet.
There are no large recording devices that exist yet for RED camera, so I have NO IDEA of how you will record 10 hours of footage a day, at this point. The HD-SDI output is a 720p monitoring output, and is not designed to go into a VTR.

It is currenty my opinion that whoever has budgeted a large project with a 50TB XSAN system for use with the RED camera, has not done their homework, and is in fantasy land.

It appears that currently Red Alert is the only software that is actually working, and this is for you to examine and play with your footage, not to do the efficient file translation, as Redcine will ultimately do, for translation into FCP.

At least this is my impression for now, and I could be completely wrong. It troubles me that RED users are the ones posting this info, and there appears to be no official company stance on this subject (perhaps they are wisely awaiting the relase of Redcine software - no differently than AJA is awaiting the soon release of the I/O HD, and won't discuss too much about it, until it is working and released).

Bob Zelin


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thesunflower
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 20, 2007 at 1:49:33 pm

Good advice Bob... we have access to the Red Alert (comes with the camera)... just throwing a question out there to see what the general thought is ... luckily we have a plan "B"! We are doing a camera test today and going thru our existing workflow to see if using the RED is even a feasible option. I'll let ya'll know what happens!


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donatello
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 20, 2007 at 8:10:12 pm

there a basic explanation on Red Alert and Red Quick - being tested on a iMac

http://www.projectred.net/



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Bob Zelin
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 22, 2007 at 11:23:38 pm

excellent link Donatello - thanks for posting this !

Bob Zelin


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HolyCowSeattle
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 24, 2007 at 7:57:03 am

Folks....listen closely......


...for the masses....

..........RED is still vaporware.



Unless your name is on some serious Hollywood titles, you won't see, touch or use it for at least a year or two.
There's no real workflow because the product simply does not exist yet for day to day end users.

Sorry to be so negative...but in my opinion...RED...as a finished product.....is STILL just buzz and well crafted publicity.



So I will see you all at the RED NAB booth again next year.

(I will bring popcorn next time...this years's demo was pretty good.)

Regards.
-P





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gary adcock
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 24, 2007 at 11:37:02 am

[HolyCowSeattle] "Folks....listen closely...... "


Ahhh
another informed opinion.

RED is here, I have worked on RED and I am in no way a hollywood big wig, I have cut 4K redcode on my laptop, and output 2K DPX files to color from a RED camera.

while I agreed it is not currently a camera for the mainstream DV crowd, I can assure the film makers here that RED does indeed exist and RED is out there now.

whether you are professional enough to handle it is a different question.


gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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Barend Onneweer
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 24, 2007 at 6:24:54 pm

And this is helpful exactly how?

Barend

Raamw3rk - digital storytelling and visual effects


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Brian Mills
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 25, 2007 at 1:08:36 am

My advice to the original poster:

Shoot HDCAM, go RED next time.

I am not like that earlier poster who thinks RED is vaporware, it DOES exist, and is most likely the future, but the reality of the situation now is this is brand-spanking new technology from a brand-spanking new company and the earliest adopters are the ones who are going to suffer the biggest headaches discovering all the bugs in real-world situations... On the clock, where time is money.

I think the mere fact that you have to ask what the workflow is for a project you're shooting in 2 weeks shows a BIG RED FLAG that you should go with a painless, tried-and-true workflow this time out.

You certainly have the storage to tackle HDCAM, more-so if you digitize to Apple ProRes. It will look beautiful on your HD-DVD and RED will be around for your next project - after having had several key firmware updates I'm sure :)

Brian Mills
Videographer


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thesunflower
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 25, 2007 at 12:57:53 pm

Thank you Brian for that info. I have to say if we do go ahead shooting with the RED (and it looks like we are in order to achieve the content projection on a 4K Sony projector) then we should at least be getting some type of compensation for beta testing the whole thing... camea bugs, workflow, delivery, etc...

Thanks to everyone who posted a reply :o) I'll let you know what happens!


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pennello
Re: The Red Camera/FCP workflow
on Sep 25, 2007 at 8:01:43 am

If your talking about building a san that big then you have a decent budget.

Email the guys at Assimilate

http://www.assimilateinc.com/contact1.html

Either Nacho or Lucas.



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