FORUMS: list search recent posts

Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??

COW Forums : RED Camera

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
lisa rolley
Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 5:08:37 am

Hey friends,

I have ONLY 2 days left on a deadline for this project i just walked in to so any help you guys can give would be awesome.

So I am working on a RED project which has locked edits in FCP and now needs color correction and originally the workflow was to go from RED>FCP>Crimson>REDcine (for CC)>FCP but now the client wants to see if Color can be used instead of REDcine. I am coming into this project at this point and have limited RED experience and am just learning Color myself so its a bit of a nightmare but I really want to learn so I am giving this my best.

Here are the project specs / details:

Delivery is: 1920x1080 ProRes (HQ)

1) Footage was shot with the RED @ 4k 16:9 23.98 fps
2) The footage was turned into ProRes 422 2048 x 1152 for editing purposes
3) once picture was locked on edits the fcp timeline was condensed to just 1 video track then an XML file was exported for CRIMSON to receive.
4) Crimson opened up the XML file and intermediates were created by pointing to the original RED footage.
5) Out of CRIMSON an XML file was created to go along with the intermediates created.
6) REDCINE looks at XML & Intermediates and the settings in REDCINE are 4K 16:9. CC was to be done in REDCINE and then brought back into FCP for final output - this last process i have not learned from the boss here because Color was requested to be used when i arrived.

SO at this point I am unclear on how to go from Crimson into COLOR for CC of intermediates - i was only able to import the xml file i kicked out of FCP but which is referencing the ProRes clips instead of the full res intermediate files & XML created my Crimson. I also tried importing the XML file created by Crimson but it caused COLOR to crash everytime.

I know I am not understanding a fair amount of stuff here but any gaps which need filling in I will try my best to do and will be checking for responses hourly i nthat I will not be sleeping anyways for the next 2 days!

Thank you in advance

Best,

Lisa


Return to posts index

Asher Castillo
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 6:09:02 am

Out of curiosity, do you need what was done in RedCine, or can you go back to the original FCP side and use the 'send to Color command? I know that doing this will put you back to square one, but I think the cine XML and FCP XML may be different enough to cause issues. With a tight deadline, it may easier to go from FCP to Color then try to make the other work.



Return to posts index

Russell Lasson
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 6:19:27 am

Don't even bother with Crimson. Go to the RED support website and download the latest support for FCP.

READ THE WHITE PAPER ABOUT HOW TO USE FCP AND COLOR! It will walk you through your options step by step.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Ridgeline Digital Cinema Mastering
Universal Post
Salt Lake City, UT


Return to posts index


lisa rolley
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 7:18:02 am

thanks for getting back to me guys!

The big concern everyone has is staying with the highest RED material and NOT CCing the pro res footage in FCP - Will i be avoiding this by using your methods or will it involve using the pro res files to CC with in COLOR ?

thanks and I'll think of whatever else i am missing here once i have brain function in the MORNING.

BEST

Lisa



Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 7:40:59 am

I second that. The new workflow in FCS will give you access to the original RED footage in Color, so you'll grade with full 12 bit.
The only limitation is de-bayering, which is maximum half-high in this. But that's nothing to be too concerned about when going to finish in 1920x1080 ProRes. Full decoding is very time cionsuming and rarely done for HDTV. It will only show advantages in extremely low-light shots.

Hope this helps,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

lisa rolley
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 8:10:25 am

hey there Ash/Russ/uli !!!

great to get help from you guys i really appreciate all of you taking the time to respond to my desperate cry for help...

ok so the last response still leaves me wondering if i will be CCing with the highest quality RED files as opposed to the ProRes files the editor cut with in FCP...basically i have been asked to use COLOR if possible BUT only if its not CCing ProRes but instead the higher RED material - I am confused about how COLOR see's the edit coming from FCP but references the RED full quality 4k files and then roundtrips back to FCP for last touches (i.e. any graphics, titles, speed changes etc which need to be added back before output at 1920x1080 ProRes(HQ).

if you guys have any further details on workflow specifically based on the parameters i layed out in my original post that would be grat too.

thank you

L



Return to posts index


lisa rolley
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 9:04:23 am

Just gave a quick read to the document you recommended Russ and I am still not sure I understand what steps I will need to take in order to CC in Color with the highest RED files even though my FCP sequences are all ProRes.

let me know what steps i should take - you've been a big help so thanks

lisa



Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 3:42:58 pm

Well, I'll try to explain it in different words: you'll be throwing away the ProRes version and ingest again as native (based on your cut, of course). Then send to Color, which will see native R3D.

BUT: there's no way back to FCP in full quality after grading. You can either output DPX, which FCP doesn't understand, or in ProRes, which can be further refined in FCP. Up to you, since well graded ProRes will look great on HDTV and even quite good on the big screen (we've tested it). Or, for ultimate quality, output DPX for the big screen as a final step.

Hope this helps,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

Russell Lasson
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 3:43:08 pm

Follow "WORKFLOW 2" in the document:


Using RED Media with Final Cut Studio – Nov 11, 2008 16
Workflow 2: Work Offline Using ProRes;
Finish Using RED QuickTime Media
This workflow describes transcoding to ProRes for efficient offline editing, then
reconforming your edited sequence to reingested RED QuickTime media for final
mastering and color correction using Color.
• Advantage — Editing with ProRes 422 media is less processor-intensive than editing
using RED QuickTime files. After you reconform, you can work in Color at higher
quality with access to all of the raw image data in the R3D file, as Color can bypass
QuickTime and use the RED framework directly.
• Disadvantage — Reconforming is an extra step that requires good organization.

Stage 1 — Ingest Using ProRes, and Perform an Offline Edit
1. If it!s necessary to edit your program at offline quality for efficiency, transcode the
archived RED media to ProRes 422 or ProRes 422 (HQ) using the Log and Transfer
window in Final Cut Pro. (For more information, see “Transcoding to ProRes 422.”)
2. Edit your project in Final Cut Pro as you normally would.

Stage 2 — Reconform Your Project to RED QuickTime Media
1. Once your edit is locked, prepare your edited sequence to be media-managed by
moving all video clips that aren!t being superimposed as part of a compositing
operation down to track V1. This makes navigation and grade management much
easier once you start working in Color, and may eliminate unused clips from the
Timeline, reducing the amount of media needing to be reconformed.

Using RED Media with Final Cut Studio – Nov 11, 2008 17
2. If you haven!t already, create a “RED Using ProRes” sequence preset in Final Cut
Pro. (For more information, see “Creating a RED Using ProRes Sequence Preset in
Final Cut Pro.”) You!ll use this preset to media-manage your edited sequence.
3. Right-click the edited sequence in the Browser, and choose Media Manage from the
shortcut menu to open the Media Manager. The recommended settings are:
• Media pop-up menu – Create Offline
• Include render files – off
• “Set sequences to” pop-up menu — “RED Using ProRes” (the name you gave the
sequence preset you created)
• Include master clips outside selection – off
• Delete unused media from duplicated – off
• Use Handles – off
• Include affiliate clips outside selection – off
• “Base media file names on” pop-up menu – existing file names
• Duplicate selected items and place into a new project – on
• Include nonactive multiclip angles – off




4. Next, click the Browse button in the Media Destination area and choose a location to
save the media and the new offline sequence you!re creating, then click OK.
5. When the Media Manager operation finishes, you need to change the ingest options
of the Log and Transfer window before you begin to actually ingest media:
5.1. Open the Log and Transfer window, and choose Preferences from the Action
pop-up menu (the menu with the gear icon).
5.2. When the Import Preferences sheet appears, choose Native from the
“Transcode to” column corresponding to the RED Plugin.
5.3. Close the Log and Transfer window when you!ve finished.
6. Lastly, right-click the new offline sequence that!s been created, and choose Batch
Capture from the shortcut menu. When the Log and Transfer window appears,
reingest all necessary footage from your archived RED media directories.

Stage 3 — Grade Your Program Using Color
1. Prepare the sequence for sending to Color. Clips with effects or using media that is
incompatible with Color (including clips with speed effects, still images, freeze
frames, and multicam clips) should be prerendered as described in the “Moving
Projects Between Final Cut Pro and Color” chapter of the Color User Manual. Export
each clip that needs to be prerendered as either ProRes 422 (HQ) or Uncompressed
10-bit 4:2:2, and edit the resulting .mov file into your Timeline to replace the original,
unsupported clip.
2. When you!re finished, right-click on your sequence in the Browser, and choose Send
To > Color to send the prepared sequence to Color for grading.

Once in Color, you!ll find that you have access to each clip!s camera setting
metadata via the Red tab in the Primary In room. You can use the RED image data
as is, or make adjustments as necessary. Please note, clips that have been
transcoded to ProRes 422 (HQ) lose the ability to access these camera settings, as
they no longer contain the native RED raw image data.

Stage 4 — Render Out of Color
1. When you!re ready to render the color-corrected project, you have two choices:
• Option 1 – Render to DPX for film printing. As with the digital intermediate workflow
described in the Color User Manual, Pan & Scan effects are rendered within Color
when you select DPX or Cineon as your Render File Type, and dissolves are
rendered by Color when you use the Gather Rendered Media command to
assemble the final consecutively numbered image sequence for film output.
• Option 2 – If you!re planning to output to SD or HD video (for example, if you!re
rendering a second version of your program for video mastering), set the Render
File Type to QuickTime, and set the QuickTime Export Codec to either ProRes 422
(HQ) or Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2. After you!ve rendered the project, send it back
to Final Cut Pro.

Russell Lasson
Ridgeline Digital Cinema Mastering
Universal Post
Salt Lake City, UT


Return to posts index

Lisa Rolley
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 3:47:35 pm

Thank you guys!!!!!!

you rock.

- Lisa



Return to posts index

Craig Sommerer
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 4:08:10 pm

This is a great post, Russell. I hope you're submitting an invoice for all this knowledge and skill.



Return to posts index

Lisa Rolley
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 4:16:29 pm

ok settle down guy

each one teach one right...sharing is caring!

your humble friend

Lisa



Return to posts index

Russell Lasson
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 22, 2009 at 4:43:42 pm

I wish I could claim that it was my knowledge. The only thing I can claim is that I know that the RED FCS whitepaper is really informative. If you look at most of my posts recently, they all say, "Read the whitepaper and then let us know if you have questions."

But if anyone still cares to send money my way, it's hard to pass that up!

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Ridgeline Digital Cinema Mastering
Universal Post
Salt Lake City, UT


Return to posts index

lisa rolley
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 23, 2009 at 9:01:06 am

So in the end we in fact ended up using RedCine to do the Color Correction of final edits.

workflow is as follows: fcp XML > Crimson > RedCine (for CC) - export ProRes HQ 1080 Quicktime file > FCP - back into sequence to be bladed up exactly as original locked edit > Reapply all effects, titles, graphics etc > final output.

The decision was made to not deal with the media manager route Russ pointed me to at such a late point and instead to do the CCing in RedCine - obviously its not capable of vignettes and other great features as in COLOR...

lisa



Return to posts index

Uli Plank
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 23, 2009 at 9:18:37 am

Sounds like quite some hazzle. Glad it worked for you, since REDCine is not the most stable software under the sun…

If you have some spare time, check out the different routes to Color. You won't look back!

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


Return to posts index

lisa rolley
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 23, 2009 at 9:58:33 am

Yeah agreed - it is totally buggy and weird to work with but fingers crossed the end result will be a bunch of beautiful looking spots

i am learning color now and trying to apply it to work looking forward to giving it a go.

thanks
L



Return to posts index

Jerry Hofmann
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Jan 24, 2009 at 12:55:44 pm

You're gonna love Color... I have a ton of fun working with it.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: "Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4" Click here

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO, CD's


Return to posts index

Conor Flynn
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Feb 11, 2009 at 6:12:02 pm

Hi Everyone,

I plan to use the "Workflow #2" described in the RED FCS Whitepaper and discussed in this thread for a short film I'm editing. I'm doing a little test now to make sure it will go smoothly, and I'm running into a strange problem.

I used Log and Transfer to ingest the RED media into FCP as ProRes 422 QuickTimes. I've done this several times before, and, as usual, I had no problems. I cut together a short sequence and then MediaManaged it to create an offline version. So far, so good.

Then I switched the preferences in the Log and Transfer window to transcode to "Native." I select my new offline sequence and click Batch Capture, but I can't reingest the RED media. The Log and Tranfser window comes up and immediately gives me the error message:

Volumes Not Available:The selected clips cannot be imported because they originate from the following volumes that are currently not mounted.

I haven't moved or changed the RED files since my first Log and Transfer. I haven't altered the RED file structure in any way. Any ideas why FCP can't find them now? I can't get to the next step and grade in Color unless I get access to the original RED media. Thanks!



Return to posts index

gary adcock
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Feb 11, 2009 at 7:25:25 pm

[Conor Flynn] "I haven't moved or changed the RED files since my first Log and Transfer. I haven't altered the RED file structure in any way. Any ideas why FCP can't find them now? I can't get to the next step and grade in Color unless I get access to the original RED media. Thanks!"

your software is not up-to-date,

only the most current versions of FCP/ OS/ QT / Red plugin can be used with this workflow.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




Return to posts index

Conor Flynn
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Feb 13, 2009 at 10:27:56 pm

Thanks, Gary. Updating the software allowed me to reingest the RED Media for my test. I've run into the problem again, however, now that I'm trying to trying the workflow with my real timeline. It's not working despite my up-to-date software.

I originally ingested the RED Media into FCP using the Log & Capture tool back in August, 2008. I've been cutting with the ProRes QuickTimes since then. I'm almost picture locked, which is why I've been testing this workflow. The original RED media is still on the same drive that I used in August, and I have that drive mounted, but Final Cut is telling me that the necessary volumes are not available. Does it matter that this workflow didn't exist back when I originally ingested the material as ProRes? The file structure and naming conventions are the same, so I would think Final Cut would be able to find the appropriate files. Any thoughts?

Thanks.



Return to posts index

Karl Hirsch
Re: Workflow help!! RED>FCP>Crimson/Redcine>Color>FCP??
on Apr 4, 2009 at 6:06:54 pm

Conor --

Did you ever figure this out? Same exact problem over here...!

thanks
karl


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]