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R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow

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Jerry Grace
R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow
on Dec 30, 2008 at 7:46:07 am

Alo Everyone

Now the other day i just received the golden ticket after installing Adobe's new R3D support codec for the CS4 Suite. Woo!

I'm on a PC and am in the process of onlining some effects for a short promotional piece shot on the RED at 4k and 2K. The offline was done in FCP and we imported the EDL into premiere and finally into after effects. All working well and good in 32 Bit floating point with the exception of 1 small problem - Colour/saturation settings in the native R3D files.

We shot the piece in camera at 50% saturation to give us an idea of look we were going for. So this embedded itself into the native R3D files and you can see as much when viewing the clips in Red Alert or Red cine (it shows the saturation at .5 instead of 1) Now when you turn the saturation back up to 1 (we need to for Chroma shots) it works fine and saves out the quicktimes. Now this worked on FCP and Mac that had the QT codec and we could view the QT proxies. But not on PC as we can only view the native Raw R3D files. And it seems that I can't save the colour correction and embed it into the R3D files with either Red cine or Red Alert. And bringing these R3D files into after effects even at 32 bit, AE still recognises the files at half saturation. So here are my questions

1) Does bumping up the saturation in after effects cause the image to bleed? Does it degrade the image? I mean its 32 bit? Shouldn't it be fine? I might be paranoid but i notice some bleeding and i'm not nearly getting as clean an execution as i would in Red Cine or Red Alert.

2) Is there any way to save/embed the colour correction into the R3D metadata? So After effects will import/read the file at 100% sat instead of 50%?

Cheers everyone! Any help is greatly appreciated!!

- Jerry




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Uli Plank
Re: R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow
on Dec 30, 2008 at 4:12:30 pm

AFAIK the Adobe native workflow doesn't yet recognize RSX look files. Maybe Adobe is waiting for the unified file format for looks that has been announced as being worked upon by RED.

You can always bump up the saturation quite a bit, since the de-bayering process initially yields pretty low saturation values. But if it's for (HD)TV, always check for legal values with a vectorscope (in hardware if you can afford it).

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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David Battistella
Re: R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow
on Dec 30, 2008 at 5:25:03 pm

[Jerry Grace] "We shot the piece in camera at 50% saturation to give us an idea of look we were going for. So this embedded itself into the native R3D files and you can see as much when viewing the clips in Red Alert or Red cine "

I want to clarify this. the look was NOT burned into the r3d files. This is the point of shooting camera RAW. it was burned into the metadata look you created in the camera (which is what the QT files refer to for playback instructions).

I do not mean to be a stickler about this but remember that NO LOOK IS EVER BURNED INTO AN R3D FILE. It's RAW.


That said you can use RA to change the look and replace the QT REF LOOK you used as a Shooting look.


David





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Noah Kadner
Re: R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow
on Dec 30, 2008 at 9:04:08 pm

Yeah but I think the point is Adobe doesn't support that metadata so whether the look is technically burned in or not you can't directly access it with CS4, which is a shame.

Noah

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David Battistella
Re: R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow
on Dec 30, 2008 at 9:25:30 pm


I hear ya Noah, but it is none of the looks are burned into the r3d, it ust does not happen.

That post suggests that the look is burned into the r3d and it is not.

Adobe "sees" the metadata if he is seeing the 50% saturated look.

This is yet another reason to test the workflow and light RED to the RAW file and not a camera look. Lighting to the monitor or camera look is dangerous.

It's best to TEST as the better image you capture, the more elastic your post can be.

I would try to recreate the QT REF movies with the saturation at 100% and se if they show up that way in AE.

It looks like AE is looking at the QT wrapper and NOT the RAW file, because if it were there would be far less saturation than is being reported here.

David


David



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Jerry Grace
Re: R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow
on Dec 30, 2008 at 11:24:36 pm

Hey Noah

I do understand the Raw files relationship with the metadata. Excuse my convoluted way's of explaining things. But it doesn't change the situation. Also the DOP did record/embed 50% sat into the metadata. Something I was nervous to green light but none the less works fine on a macintosh workflow using QT proxies. The recent CS4 developments with PC support have led us to working on a PC workflow. It's convenient. Was convenient...

Now to to clarify

I need to embed/change/burn the METADATA included in the RAW file, in order for adobe to read 100% sat. Now QT references are useless to me because I'm PC and right now there is only R3D Raw support for PC's and NO QT RED codec has been issued.

Hence this leaves me in a bit of a dilemma. I think i might have to make do with bumping the sat in After effects :|

1 to Mac worfflow and 0 to PC....



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David Battistella
Re: R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow
on Dec 31, 2008 at 12:48:37 am

[Jerry Grace] "I need to embed/change/burn the METADATA included in the RAW file, in order for adobe to read 100% sat. Now QT references are useless to me because I'm PC and right now there is only R3D Raw support for PC's and NO QT RED codec has been issued."


OK.

Trying to help you out here. If this is the case then ADOBE is reading the RSX file from redcine.

This means you need to perhaps (after making a copy) change the rsx. Open it in a text editor and change the saturation value.

If ADOBE is not reading the QT then the metadata is contained in what ever file AE is looking at to read back the values.

Figure out what file ADOBE is looking at, change it and then that should be reflected in the file when it is opened by an ADOBE app.

Hope this helps.

David





Peace and Love :)
Read my Blog
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Uli Plank
Re: R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow
on Dec 31, 2008 at 7:56:04 am

Sorry, David,

but REDCine is not generating RSX files. Only REDAlert does, and that's Mac only.

But AFAIK Premiere can change the saturation as well, so why not do it there? If it's always the same amount it should be easy.

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Jerry Grace
Re: R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow
on Dec 31, 2008 at 7:59:13 am

I think i might be able to manually change the RSX file. I can see the thread where the saturation derives from.

I'll give it a try after NYE.

And Uli - I'm not sure if saturating in AE or Premiere will cause bleeding/degredation, the results so far suggest so, I mean its 32 bit? Does that mean it should be fine and i'm just being paranoid? :P

Cheers!




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Uli Plank
Re: R3D Raw file colour correction and After Effects workflow
on Dec 31, 2008 at 11:26:27 am

If you use a high-quality file format, there'll be no bleeding or degradation. A film-out can use all the colors you may generate in DPX-files for example.

HDTV or Blu-Ray is a different situation, youui'll need to stay in broadcast-safe limits there.

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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