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FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!

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Russell Lasson
FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 21, 2008 at 6:17:53 am

It's official. FCP and Color now support RED. It's pretty slick too.

You'll need to download the Pro Apps 2008-04 update and the new FCP Log and Transfer plug-in from the RED website.

You'll edit the R3D QT wrapped files at either medium or low quality (RT extreme setting).

I was able to play back the R3D files in Color at 10-11fps with the stock ATI 2600 XT on a 8-core 2.8Ghz system with 12GB of RAM.

All in all, the workflow seems really slick. Going to play more with it later.

-Russ



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Arnie Schlissel
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 21, 2008 at 6:32:28 pm

Russell, what's the color space on the QT wrapped files?

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


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Jeremy Newmark
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 21, 2008 at 8:20:38 pm

The QT wrapped files default to how the clip was shot in the camera. However once the file is in Color, you have the option to change to Camera RGB, REDSPACE or Rec.709.

It's also worth pointing out that if you have an FCP timeline of the Reference proxy files and not the new QT wrapped files, you can now send this to Color and it sees the media as well.

best regards,
jeremy



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Nate Weaver
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 21, 2008 at 9:38:00 pm

[Russell Lasson] "I was able to play back the R3D files in Color at 10-11fps with the stock ATI 2600 XT on a 8-core 2.8Ghz system with 12GB of RAM. "

I thought I knew all there was to know about editing Red proxies in a timeline and getting preview on my Kona LH, but I learned something even more last night:

In the past, I was turning RT on, setting timeline quality to Low, and turning off "Scrub High Quality" (dramatically speeds up moving around in the timeline). I'd get something close to real time playback through the Kona, and barely acceptable speed scrubbing and doing operations in the timeline.

Last night I learned that if I turn my Kona output off, I get LIGHTNING fast scrubbing, which speeds my editing up greatly. Slipping and sliding and trimming operations are still somewhat slow though. I am however getting FULL playback speed in the canvas, with the sense that it would never drop a frame.

Also played with sending to Color. It's clear you're getting all 12bits to work with in there, I had some underexposed shots that I was able to gamma up and they did so VERY well. I've never worked with such quality manipulating video.

Nate Weaver
Director/D.P., Los Angeles
http://www.nateweaver.net


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Russell Lasson
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 22, 2008 at 3:05:36 am

It's also worth noting that in Color, changing the playback proxy settings changes the debayering quality. It looks like the default is half quality. At that setting I was getting 10-11 fps. At full quality I was getting 1-2 fps. Finally, at quarter res, I got about 20 fps.

Again, this is just with the stock graphics card.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Ridgeline Digital Cinema Mastering
Universal Post
Salt Lake City, UT


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Graeme Nattress
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 22, 2008 at 9:49:40 pm

Yes, default is half and for render, you can set it so you get half high, which looks rather nice, but it slower. Choice is yours.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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Russell Lasson
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 23, 2008 at 7:46:49 am

Graeme, I think you're probably the best person to try to get some clarification on what Color is actually doing with the R3D files.

[Graeme Nattress] "Yes, default is half and for render, you can set it so you get half high, which looks rather nice, but it slower. Choice is yours. "

I work with Scratch right now. In Scatch I can do full high or half high. I've noticed if I render out 2k or 1080P files using full high, then there is a reduction in noise by using the full debayer.

In Color, if I set the render proxy quality to full resolution, is that the equivalent to full high or half high in Scratch?

Also, in the geometry room, if I have a 4k R3D file, do I have access to the full 4k resolution? In other words, if I scale a 4k R3D file to crop out or reframe something with the project resolution set to something like 2k or 1080P, is Color accessing the 4k resolution or is it scaling a 2k QT reference movie?

Thanks,

-Russ



Russell Lasson
Ridgeline Digital Cinema Mastering
Universal Post
Salt Lake City, UT


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Graeme Nattress
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 23, 2008 at 11:28:27 pm

It's the "half" mode from RED Alert/Rushes/Line that uses the full 4k data to demosaic and downsample to a 2k image in one go. It's quicker than doing a full demosaic then downsample with most of the quality of that approach, but in a fraction of the time. I don't think Scratch has that mode.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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Uli Plank
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 24, 2008 at 8:28:05 am

Hi Graeme,

may I ask how 3K is handled in Color?

TIA

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Graeme Nattress
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 24, 2008 at 12:30:06 pm

With the "half" to 1.5k, either rapid or high quality.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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gary adcock
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 22, 2008 at 7:00:24 am

[Nate Weaver] "I thought I knew all there was to know about editing Red proxies in a timeline and getting preview on my Kona LH, but I learned something even more last night: "

Nate
the slow down you are seeing on the LHE card is actually quite simple.

The LHE does not have driver support for REDCode and does not natively support R3D's odd size rasters or frame sizes over 1920 x1080- so your CPU is handling the conversions so that the video will play out

I get realtime playback of R3D in Color with 8G ram and my Kona 3 card.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Nate Weaver
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 22, 2008 at 6:27:44 pm

Thank you very much for that. Makes perfect sense. I was looking in my PCI-E assignments to see if there was a bottleneck from the ATI card to the Kona. I forgot there was scaling going on.

Crap. Since I own the camera, and I have a lot more work coming up with it, I wonder if I'm going to have to upgrade now. I wonder if BM has this solved. I know they tend to do a lot in software as opposed to hardware, so I'm doubting it.

It is amazing how fast it is when I turn the Kona off. There's a lot of settings that have to be JUST right, but when they are, working with the media is not horrible at all. Just slow when moving ends/slipping/sliding (which is almost everything, I know)

Nate Weaver
Director/D.P., Los Angeles
http://www.nateweaver.net


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Nate Weaver
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 22, 2008 at 9:55:48 pm

You know, I just think I figured out an even better way.

Somebody on Reduser figured out you could still use the proxies in FCP, and send to Color, where the proxies are recognized as the RAW R3D files, with the new Red tab and everything.

I just tested using _P proxies in a 720x486 anamorphic ProRes timeline where everything is lightning fast (and edit operations are very fast as well, unlike the native L&T media). Send this to Color and then Color gives you all the raw control, AND reads the _P proxies at 2048x1024. You do have to tell Color to change the size of the project, though...it will by default make the project size 512x256 if you send it _P proxies.

Change the project size, and then the media becomes 2K res, and will render that way as well. Thanks to Russell who elsewhere noted you can speed up Color even by changing proxy resolutions to half or quarter.

I've rendered out the 2K to ProRes HQ, sent to FCP, and it's golden. Talk about efficient!

Nate Weaver
Director/D.P., Los Angeles
http://www.nateweaver.net


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gary adcock
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 23, 2008 at 12:39:55 pm

[Nate Weaver] " I wonder if BM has this solved. "

No way no how- if you pass this off the CPU you will get even worse performance than you get with the LHE

the Kona 3 has support for REDCode - No BMD card has RED support as far as I know.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Shane Betts
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 24, 2008 at 12:55:33 am

AFAIK BMD doesn't offer any FX assistance whatsoever. I check in the FX handling and you just get FCP or none.



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Anna Thora
Re: FCP/COLOR now SUPPORT RED!!!!
on Nov 27, 2008 at 11:10:43 am

Hi Nate,
I'm doing some tests with editing the QT _M proxies from RED in FCP and sending it to color to grade the 2K R3D files.
My KONA Lhe card seems to be unable to cope with the switching between the applications so I used your advise to turn it off (while in FCP).
It seems to be a very smooth process but I have a question for you.
My footage is shot at 4K 2:1.
The output from color to FCP for video mastering, do you set it at QT, ProRes HQ 2048x1152?
This would give me the most quality to work with in terms of color manipulation, right?




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