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Red Cam Color Shift

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Omar Noory
Red Cam Color Shift
on Sep 29, 2008 at 2:06:56 pm

Hello,

I'm also posting this question in the Red Cam forum.

I'm working on a project using Red Cam footage and After Effects where I'm getting some color shift when I put the footage into After Effects and then more color shift when the footage is rendered out. What color space should I be using in AE to prevent this? Let me know if you need any more info on the project. Thanks in advance.


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gary adcock
Re: Red Cam Color Shift
on Sep 30, 2008 at 2:08:49 pm

[Omar Noory] " Let me know if you need any more info on the project. "

DUH..

Omar- without some idea of what you are doing how can anyone answer your question.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD




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Omar Noory
Re: Red Cam Color Shift
on Sep 30, 2008 at 2:58:30 pm

Hey Gary,

Sorry for the vagueness of my previous post (I was just thrown into the project yesterday so I wasn't sure of the specifics). Here's what I'm working with:

I took the r3d file into RedAlert, color space is Redspace, output LUT is REC709. Exported it as a DPX sequence and imported that into After Effects. Changed the project settings to 16bpc and put the working space to Rec709. Rendered it out as a Quicktime using Prores HQ, trillions of color. When I check out the quicktime now, it's noticeably darker. I can get the colors to stay consistent only if I don't have After Effects color manage (setting the working space to none) but I'm trying to understand how these color profiles are supposed to work between the Red programs, After Effects and Quicktime.


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gary adcock
Re: Red Cam Color Shift
on Oct 1, 2008 at 4:18:58 pm

first question are you an editor or an animator?

There is no such thing as 16bit video - the maximum limit for bit depth is currently limited to 10bit.

I am pretty sure that the RED apps DPX output are currently limited to 10bit. Other apps can create an handle DPX files at greater bit depth (see Scratch, Baselight, Iridas) but not most desktop apps - by saving that file with trillions of colors you screwed yourself- only AE can see it - and all the other apps you are working are now having to force the file down to 8bit ( the Quicktime default) .

REDSPACE is only a color space in the RED workflow- you will need to "crush" the color to rec 709 for most output sources such as tape or DVD.

your issue is a common one since AE and FCP see bit conversion differently. turn off color controls on all apps until the output stage- then you have less issues- this is not print where you can manage the color along the way with a DPX workflow it is best to handle the color correction at the last stages of production.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD




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Omar Noory
Re: Red Cam Color Shift
on Oct 1, 2008 at 4:26:00 pm

Turning off color controls seems to be the best option and the general consensus. Thanks for the help Gary, greatly appreciated.



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Russell Lasson
Re: Red Cam Color Shift
on Oct 1, 2008 at 8:53:54 pm

I've also heard of people having problems with color shifts when rendering to ProRes out of AE. Interesting to see if it changes if you render to uncompressed instead of ProRes.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Ridgeline Digital Cinema Mastering
Universal Post
Salt Lake City, UT


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Uli Plank
Re: Red Cam Color Shift
on Oct 2, 2008 at 9:41:01 am

Only if you are using an RGB codec, going from RGB to YUV will always introduce some shifts. The only codec to handle this well is Sheer from Bitjazz.

Unfortunately RGB will limit you to 8 bit in FCP.

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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