FORUMS: list search recent posts

Final Cut Pro RED footage question

COW Forums : RED Camera

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Pat Trotter
Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jun 27, 2008 at 9:16:41 pm

Can you take an HDSDI output from Scratch and load directly into FCP with a Kona card to ProRes HQ. Normally this is a render from Red Cine but it tends to be a 15:1 ratio with a MAC 8 core. Any suggestions?



Return to posts index

Pat Trotter
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jun 28, 2008 at 2:11:28 am

Also does the timecode travel down HDSDI or do you have to crash it into FCP?



Return to posts index

David Battistella
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jun 28, 2008 at 4:30:08 am



Does scratch give you real time playback?

The answer to this will answer your question.

David






Peace and Love :)
Read my Blog
http://blogs.creativecow.net/DavidBattistella


Return to posts index


gary adcock
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jun 28, 2008 at 1:44:21 pm

Yes
you have the ability to playout from a full Scratch system in real time out via HDSDI.

YES
TC is sent down the HDSDI - however FCP cannot read Timecode over HDSDI so it would be better laying to SR tape to have a post master.


Soon on a 8 core mac with a Kona 3 installed and the Upcoming Kona driver release you would be able to layoff to tape in Realtime via AJA TV too.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




Return to posts index

David Battistella
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jun 28, 2008 at 4:17:30 pm

"Soon on a 8 core mac with a Kona 3 installed and the Upcoming Kona driver release you would be able to layoff to tape in Realtime via AJA TV too."


This is the single thing that will change a lot of people minds about RED. REAL TIME IN FCP from proxies. This is something we have all been waiting for.

David




Peace and Love :)
Read my Blog
http://blogs.creativecow.net/DavidBattistella


Return to posts index

thomas benton
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Apr 23, 2009 at 5:24:52 pm

In the case were you are using red cam footage why is it better to lay off to tape?
Thomas.

Cheers.
Thomas Benton


Return to posts index


Pat Trotter
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jul 1, 2008 at 4:43:37 pm

If you can't get an output from Scratch HDSDI with TC into FCP is there another way to do it? Or another way other than HDSDI?

Curious, does your comment (Soon on a 8 core mac with a Kona 3 installed and the Upcoming Kona driver release you would be able to layoff to tape in Realtime via AJA TV too) relate to HDSDI being injested into Final Cut Pro? Not sure this is all new to me.

I appreciate your comments so far.

Thanks.





Return to posts index

gary adcock
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jul 1, 2008 at 5:13:33 pm

[Pat Trotter] "If you can't get an output from Scratch HDSDI with TC into FCP is there another way to do it?"

the problem is FCP -- not the tools - Final Cut does not support TC over HDSDI.

You could use AJA's VTR Exchange with a Kona Card or capture to a deck for mastering purposes if you need LTC timecode.

[Pat Trotter] "Curious, does your comment ... relate to HDSDI being injested into Final Cut Pro? Not sure this is all new to me. "

No that means that when the RED/Kona 3 driver is released- you will be able to edit from the proxy files and be able to output in a True 10bit 4:2:2 YUV or 4:4:4 RGB signal direct from the FCP timeline to a deck, rather than the 8bit YUV signal that the proxies use now.


Having the camera is only 1/2 the battle, understanding the in's and out's of a workflow that is, uh, complicated, to say the least, is a larger issue. The process is different for nearly every user and it sounds as if you are new to the high end post world.

Video I/O is one of the largest issue confronting all RED users, there a very large amount of disinformation and opinions that do not reflect what the nature of editing RED footage can be.

If you have done Uncompressed High End post and SR deliverables - working with RED is not a going to be a big deal,
if this is not where you are at - you will have a different experience.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




Return to posts index

David Battistella
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jul 1, 2008 at 6:15:58 pm



I'd like to echo what Gary is saying here. The RED camera system and post workflow is a highly flexible HIGH END production system. There are many ways to go about using your RED camera footage.

Underneath the hood is a very elegant system, but it will take the fastest machines and drive arrays to really take advantage of all of the benefits. The company has come a very long way in a short time.

When they release the SDK later this year I think that there will be some very positive responses to the post workflow. Right know it seems clunky, but it can only get better.

Red has been great at responding to the bell on the camer aside of things and now that they have made a major improvement with Build 16 many post people are keeping their fingers crossed that they approach the post workflow with the same Zeal they have made the camera imager better.

David




Peace and Love :)
Read my Blog
http://blogs.creativecow.net/DavidBattistella


Return to posts index


Mike Most
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jul 1, 2008 at 8:05:40 pm

>Soon on a 8 core mac with a Kona 3 installed and the Upcoming Kona >driver release you would be able to layoff to tape in Realtime via AJA >TV too.

Unless you know something that I don't, this is a very misleading statement.

What AJA has announced is basically real time reformatting and cropping, in other words, playing out 2048x1024 at 1920x1080. That has nothing to do with debayering or bit depth. In fact, the way I read it, all this is really doing is allowing playout of whatever you can now do in real time (and on every 8 core Mac I've tried - we have 3 - that is limited to "medium" quality at best, with no debayer as that is how the proxies work) at a more standard size so that you can see it on an HD monitor. This is considerably different than what Assimilate is doing on the Skulltrail systems, which is a real time, "high" 2K debayer that is essentially mastering quality.



Return to posts index

gary adcock
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jul 2, 2008 at 12:12:48 pm

[Mike Most] "What AJA has announced is basically real time reformatting and cropping, in other words, playing out 2048x1024 at 1920x1080. That has nothing to do with debayering or bit depth"

I was not trying to be mis-leading, I have not ever mentioned debayering in association to a Kona Card, and I was not trying to say the result be equal to a Scratch hardware conversion at this point in time ( nor should it be)

According to what I have been told, there are 3 parts of the file that are accessible in addition to the element that requires debayering- 8 bit RGB (for the LCD monitors), 8 bit YUV ( live video and EVF) and a 32bit float (r4fl) file that is the same as what is used for playback of recorded material in the camera - now available in build 16 of the camera software- .

It is also my understanding that with the Kona 3 and driver installed it forces FCP to always look at that same part of the file when working with the proxy format in an FCP timeline.- just as a Kona card forces FCP to be honest for correct video playback and drive performance for reads and writes.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




Return to posts index

David Battistella
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jul 2, 2008 at 3:22:33 pm

Mike,

I think may RED users are looking for solutions to plug in the footage right away and plan on using an FCP and KONA type set up for straight to video applications.

Not everyone shooting RED will be going for a traditional DI finish and I think this is where AJA might be setting their sights.

We all know that the way SCratch is accessing the R3D data results in better picture quality, but with an FCP solution there will be a "lower tier" of finishing going on in music video, TV pilots, corporate and the many facets of production that do not have room for the ful Scratch (or other) DI finish.

I think it's fair to say the picture coming off the QT proxies quality would not rival scratch, but it will be better than most compressed HD streams.

AJA is a great company and if they introduce REDCODE acceleration it would be a plus for many.

Who knows what will happen when the SDK is released in a month or two.

David



Peace and Love :)
Read my Blog
http://blogs.creativecow.net/DavidBattistella


Return to posts index


Rob Gardner
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jul 2, 2008 at 4:36:04 pm

Thank you all. This has been very helpful.

We are a production company that produces specials and series for PBS and cable. We deliver in Digibeta (SD) and HDcam 1080-24pfs for HD. We shoot with the Varicam (720p, DVCproHD). We have a Mac Intel 8 core, Xserve Raid, Kona 3 Card, HDcam deck, Digibeta deck and DVCproHD deck, with a Harris legalizer and HD and SD monitors. WE have been successfully making air masters with only the audio mixes done out of house.

We ordered a Red camera in order to take advantage of the 35mm depth of focus primarily. Our image quality only has to meet the quality we deliver now, which is 720p DVCproHD origination, up-converted to 1080-24pfs for HD delivery.

The major concern I have had is the amount of time it has been taking us to render the Red files using Redcine to get to 1080 files that we can edit and output with Final Cut Studio.

My question is this:

Can we reach what has been our acceptable broadcast standard using proxies and outputting to HDcam tape (with the new AJA drivers) or would we need a Scratch system to handle the material in close to real time?

Thanks again
Rob Gardner



Return to posts index

Jason Boucher
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jul 4, 2008 at 3:09:17 am

I don't claim to be a fraction of an expert, but in my experience in the post world with a few RED projects under my belt, I firmly believe anything shot with RED should be treated like film. What I mean is that it's special. If you want 1080 or 720, there are plenty of options out there, but the depth that RED delivers is only equaled to film.

So take the time to process it. As of the latest REDCINE release it's about... oh.... 3-4 times faster to deal with RED than film. And oh and that relates to being 3-4 times cheaper if you charge film rates.

RED is not a replacement for DVCPro or HDCam or (ugh) HDV... it's an alternative to 35m film. So treat it justly. The proxies are convenient and provide a great tool for rough cuts and offlines, but if your client is paying for RED, then make them understand what they're paying for is a film, not a video.

There are people like Gary out there who know a billion times more than I do, so take what they say as gospel and what I say as bathroom scrawl, but I have worked in both mediums too. I've paid film rates as a director and producer and now as an editor. Your experience may differ, but over an above my argument is this.... lenses and the person looking through the glass... it all rests on that. Give a one of my dogs a RED and see what you get if you want to test my theory. In the post world we can only do so much if the production world doesn't provide the right stuff.

RED isn't a shortcut. RED is a revival.

JB

greydogcreative.com


Return to posts index

Rob Gardner
Re: Final Cut Pro RED footage question
on Jul 4, 2008 at 5:29:33 pm

Thanks, JB, but we treat our production like film anyway, in the size of the crew, lighting, jib and steadicam and so on. Our question is basically--do we replace our Varicam system with a Red system and can we do that within the same general time framework in post production.

One way to reduce all the render time is to buy a scratch system (effective but pricey). Another is to use the proxies, if the proxies can produce an acceptable air master.

But on a major project (muliti-hour) with a lot of footage and in which delivery time is an issue major rendering time could stack up and make the system too cumbersome.

So I wonder if anywone has been using the proxies as a source to go to tape and how they compare to DVCproHD. Anybody know?
Thanks
Rob Gardner



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]