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Bob Engelsiepen
Diving In
on May 29, 2008 at 9:20:12 pm

Hello All,

I'm beginning post on a 4 min. music video shot on 2 Reds. Initially, my thought was to best light my clips in RedCine and output to Apple ProRes HQ for editorial, where I could do additional scene to scene color grading.

The first 4 min clip took almost 2 hours to process from RedCine. I've tried outputting to HD size 1920 x 1080 and REDONE 2k size 2048 x 1152, both with similar results rendertime-wise.

Because of those render times, I've decided to cut the video using the Red proxies ungraded, then output the XML via Crimson into RedCine and correct each clip individually. An arduous task, but I can't think of a viable alternative at this point.

I thought the processing might be quicker out of RedAlert, but it seems I can only export dpx or tiffs or a new graded proxy. That new QT graded proxy looks much different that the preview in RedAlert. I'm assuming the new QT is not displaying with the REC 709 lut applied, but I don't know why the QT wouldn't apply the lut to the preview.


I've read, I believe on a RED forum, that it's possible to apply RedAlert color setups to clips in Log & Transfer though I haven't found a way to do that. Again, assuming RedAlert will process faster. Trimming the clips with the editing functions within Log & Transfer would also reduce the amount of processing.


Here's the setup:

New Intel G5
2 x 3.0 ghz QuadCore
FCP 6.0.3
QT 7.4.5
Internal Raid 0

Eventually outputting to SD, letterboxed, but editing and finishing at 1920 x 1080 for fun!

Any thoughts on how to easily speed up render times or improve this workflow are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Bob Engelsiepen
View Studio
805-745-8814





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Uli Plank
Re: Diving In
on May 30, 2008 at 6:58:10 am

If your final result is for electronic media (and not a film-out) the ProRes route is quite OK. You can save a first-light in RedAlert, and it will show under the presets in log & transfer. Select the clips you want to apply it to, and they'll be imported with that grade.
Watch out, though, curves from RedAlert are currently not observed by L&T.

Hope this helps,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Bob Engelsiepen
Re: Diving In
on May 30, 2008 at 8:23:43 am

Uli,

Thanks so much for the informed response. I tried a quick test and that workflow will work nicely, if I can get the QT gamma to behave.

I'm still getting a resultant ProRes QT that has a different (darker) look than the grade preview in RedAlert. I'm assuming it has to do with a 1.8 / 2.2 gamma disparity. I don't quite get why the ProRes QTs out of RedAlert have this issue, where as the ProRes QTs out of RedCine don't.

I've enabled the QT player preferences to be compatible with FCP, though I'm not sure that it applies to this issue.

It seems to me that RedAlert writes different gamma handles to it's QTs than RedCine. That or FCP is reading them differently.

Any thoughts on that? I did notice some other posts regarding that issue.

Thanks again for your help,

Bob Englesiepen
View Studio



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Uli Plank
Re: Diving In
on May 30, 2008 at 12:55:06 pm

Yes, same problem here. The setting in QT player doesn't help, it only makes the look in it more consistent with FCP. You'll need to use a certain amount of intuitive counter-correction, I'm afraid. After all, it's only your first-light, ProRes stands pretty well to further correction. Take care to render your timeline in high-precision (32 bit YUV) though, and don't use filters or effects that are not 32 bit savvy, or you'll loose the 10 bit precision.

I don't know who's to blame, but we all know that gamma inconsistencies are a long-standing issue with Apple's video software…

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Bob Engelsiepen
Re: Diving In
on May 30, 2008 at 6:32:21 pm

Unfortunately, I need very fine control over the image especially in the darks, so I'm thinking that will need to be done from the r3d log information.

I'll give the RedAlert gamma issue another pass, as that workflow is more elegant, but if it doesn't look as good and it takes 2 corrections to get there, I may just go with the brute force method and process everything through RedCine. It's behaving, now that I'm doing only 1 clip at a time, and the results look good.

Thanks,

Bob


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Gunleik Groven
Re: Diving In
on Jun 5, 2008 at 9:40:16 pm

Easiest would be to cut from (camera or compressor batch created) proxies.

comnform with crimson.

Batch most/all clips through redline.
Only send needed clips to RedCine

Roundtrip to FCP

Send to color.

But that's just me...

Gunleik

It's gonna be a Red Hot Year
http://www.vulture.no/Websted/Reel.html


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Bob Engelsiepen
Re: Diving In
on Jun 6, 2008 at 6:54:38 am

Gunleik,

Thanks for your input.

That was the / a plan early on, but I was having no luck processing multiple clips through RedCine. I had freeze frames or the app would lock-up.

Red suggests QuickTime v7.4.1 with my set-up = MacOS 10.5.2, but unfortunately, my FCP 6.0.3 won't run with QT 7.4.1.

I got tired of trying to figure out how to make all the softwares play nicely together, so I just started processing clips one at a time through RedCine. It's time consuming, but it's working.

Best,

Bob E.






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