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Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept

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tom ross
Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 1, 2016 at 5:05:49 pm
Last Edited By tom ross on Jun 1, 2016 at 5:13:36 pm

A year or 2 ago on this forum I participated in a very informative thread by John Rofrano on the use of earlier gen Radeon cards vs later ones re the utilisation of Open CL in rendering in Sony Vegas 13 using JR's render test...it was really useful experimentation.

Therefore I am sure you guys will know the answer to my problem :)

I have just bought a Typhoon H Hexacopter and this is the 1st time I have tried to render 4k footage and I am having trouble finding the best way to render it.....When I play the file direct from the SD card of the camera it is as smooth as silk (details of original file from camera are 3840x2160, data rate: 49999kbps,Total bitrate: 50044kbps, frame rate 29 fps MP4)

However if I upload this raw unedited file to Youtube it only puts it on as 360p this doesnt worry me though as I will always want to edit future uploads in some way anyway.

Since it is footage in 4K and Youtube allows 4K uploads I would like to upload as such

So I rendered it in Sony Vegas 13 with the Main Concept AVC/ACC settings and have tried every combination of bit rate (tried loads of different ones in 'customise template' ..even really high) and different boxes selected but always it leaves artifacts like pixelated blocks and looks awful and is a bit jerky , which is a shame as the PC renders super quick in 1080p using Main Concept utilising Open CL with my Radeon 6970 card and 1080p looks great with no artifacts.

The blocky artifacts are in the rendered output file even before upload to youtube.


SO I then rendered using the Sony XAVC S setting which is artifact free but still not as smooth as the original ...you can see the jerkiness (it's still the 29fps of the original) It also takes twice as long to render (as it can't utilise the Open CL of my Radeon 6970 card..) PC spec is pretty good with SSD,Core i7 3770K and 32gm Ram

I have put the offending clip on my youtube channel here : (max and average bps were both set at 50,000,000 bps lower settings look even worse)







The full 5 minute vid rendered in Sony XAVC S is here ...you will see it is much better with no artifacts but is still a bit jerky:







I would love to know if I am doing anything wrong in Main Concept as I would prefer to use this as like I say it is able to utilise Open CL which speeds things up enormously and Sony XAVC doesn't

Hope someone can help.

I have read good things about the 4K rendering speed of Cyberlink Powerdirector 14 which I have just ordered (as I found a good deal online) but it's a shame I can't get Sony Vegas to do it. Do any of you expert video editors on here know what I might be doing wrong? and what jerk free artifact free settings I could use?.

Tom

P.S. Admins I put this post on earlier but not in the Sony Vegas forum so if you find it please fell free to delete.



Tom


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Steve Rhoden
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 2, 2016 at 7:52:25 am

Although i know you wanna make use of Main Concept AVC
and its fast utilization of Open CL, Have you tried rendering
to any other format and gotten pristine results?

Steve Rhoden (Cow Leader)
Film Maker & VFX Artist.
Owner of Filmex Creative Media.
Samples of my Work and Company can be seen here:
http://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia


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tom ross
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 2, 2016 at 8:40:26 am

Hi Steve

Thanks for the reply...yes as mentioned I rendered the full 5m vid in the 2nd link above with Sony XAVC S and this didn't leave artifacts ...although as you can see it is slightly jerky and the origninal footage when viewed looks really smooth.

I couldnt find any other render methods that would do 4K ...is there another one you could suggest? particularly one that could utilise the graphics card and I'll give it a try.

Am off out for the day now so cant reply for a few hours.

Tom


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Wayne Waag
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 2, 2016 at 4:40:39 pm
Last Edited By Wayne Waag on Jun 2, 2016 at 4:52:39 pm

You can render UHD using Handbrake, which most agree is a better encoder than MC. It's very convenient if you install the 1-click Vegas to Handbrake script.

http://www.vegasvideo.de/vegas-2-handbrake-en

I also have a 3770K and it took a little over a minute to render a 15 sec project from stills--no FX.

wwaag

Added: With 4K GoPro footage, render time increased to about a minute and a half for a 15 sec clip.


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tom ross
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 2, 2016 at 5:38:50 pm

Thanks for that Wayne ...I have heard handbrake mentioned but never used it....will give it a try hopefully this weekend...will look for some tutorials on it.

Tom


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Steve Rhoden
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 3, 2016 at 3:55:30 am

I also agree on the frameserve to Handbrake script. It maybe the best alternative to what you seek.
Its what i use to do most of my renders now.

Steve Rhoden (Cow Leader)
Film Maker & VFX Artist.
Owner of Filmex Creative Media.
Samples of my Work and Company can be seen here:
http://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia


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tom ross
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 7, 2016 at 9:45:09 am

Thanks for the suggestions Wayne and Steve.

I installed the one click Handbrake Vegas script....wow that took lots of downloads and installs...but the tutorial was straightforward and all went well.

However although there are no artifacts in the render it still does look jerky.

When viewing the original straight from the sd card the movement is very smooth but the renderered file has the occasional 'stutter' even using Handbrake.

The Cyberlink Powerdirector 14 Ultimate I ordered should be here tomorrow so am going to give that a go...will post here if any joy.

Tom


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Wayne Waag
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 7, 2016 at 3:59:56 pm

Tom,

I looked at your YT footage from from the XAVC render which had no artifacts and there are lots of parts that are jerky due to your high motion rates. Since you're in the UK, your frame rate for 4K footage is only 25 fps . Correct? In NTSC land, it would be a little better at 30 fps, but still very juddery unless your panning movements are very slow, which in your footage, they are not in certain parts. Also I presume that you are judging your playback to be juddery based on your PC playback rather than YT playback which is notorious for momentary pauses, even on the best of internet connections. When you say that your playback from the SD card is smooth, is that from the camera itself or the sd card being read by your PC? I would be very surprised if your results with the Cyberlink software are any better since the x264 encoder that's part of Handbrake is considered to be the best. You could also try TMPGEnc's Mastering Works 6, another very good encoder which renders 4K, but it's not freeware and again, I wouldn't expect any improvements. Good luck.

wwaag


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tom ross
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 7, 2016 at 6:48:37 pm

Hi Wayne

Thanks for the reply ...the footage is shot by the on board cam at 4k at 30fps

When I say the original footage looks smooth it is when viewd with the SD card (btw one with good read and write speeds) taken out of the camera and inserted into a USB3 slot in a USB3 reader on a good spec PC.

The jerkiness is visible in the rendered footage even before uploaded to the net.

I get what you mean re panning the camera too quick so will try for slower pans.

Am going to try some 1080p at 60fps (cam will do 1080p up to 120fps) next time as an experiment...will get there in the end I hope :)


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Danny Hays
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 7, 2016 at 7:29:13 pm

I have uploaded 1080 60fps to YouTube and got great results. I have not tried uploading any 1080 120fps from my GoPro yet. If you do, please post a link to it here so I can see your results. Danny

Danny Hays
Samples of my Work can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ErnestDaniels/videos?view_as=public


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tom ross
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 8, 2016 at 8:23:45 am

Thanks Danny...will do


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Danny Hays
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Jun 7, 2016 at 5:37:18 pm

I really like the results with the 1-click Vegas to Handbrake script. I do have to Click on the Start button after Hand Break analyzes the source file and it appears in the destination line. Everything else happens automatically like the description in the link in Wayne Waags post. Is this the same with you all?

Danny Hays
Samples of my Work can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ErnestDaniels/videos?view_as=public


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Artem gummed
Re: Artifacts when rendering 4K in Main Concept
on Nov 6, 2016 at 5:42:03 am

Hello !

I have the same artifacts as this video !!

Artifacts problem Fluke Hall

wow Im not the only one !
I bought a month ago a Radeon HD 6970 for fast renderings using the OpenCL. and it worked fine , actually very good!!
I was rendering Full HD videos and 4K videos from my Panasonic lumix GX85, but one day I turned off my PC and took out the graphic card to insert it in to another system (for testing) installed drivers , etc .
Rendered one video , but didnt verified the quality. Then I put it back on my main PC where it was, and when rendering 4K videos , I have always those ugly artifacts :(((( I was so happy not even with the 2nd system is the same

Used cpu only rendering and its fine but very slow
I dont want to wait 10h to render a 30min video

While testing to render fullhd 1920x1080 there is no artifacts everything is clean
only 4k is the problem ...
tried different drivers, no change
tried Handbrake, its good, but not as fast as with OpenCL

is there any one that can help me fix it ? help


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