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ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12

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Rob Cioffi
ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 30, 2016 at 10:43:12 pm

I have a client who sent me some MOV files from a Canon 5D that he wants rendered in H264 and ProRes at the highest setting. He has no idea why, other than his client wants it that way.

I have 2 questions.

1. What's so special about this proposed format?

2. I know SVP (or Windows) does not render ProRes. I've found a program called Scratch that claims to be the only Windows program that can genuinely render ProRes files. I also found this



for the H.264 piece. My plan is to render an AVI with the H.264 codec in SVP then import it into Scratch then directly render it to ProRes4444. Does anybody think this will work? Is there a better (easier) workflow?

Thanks


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Wayne Waag
Re: ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Apr 1, 2016 at 3:08:18 am

Sorry that I can't answer your question directly regarding ProRes, but here is a thread from the Vegas Pro forum a couple of years ago that may have some valuable information. http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/showmessage.asp?messageid=889085 I might add, however, that the notion of rendering an AVI with an h.264 codec seems like a bad idea. Why not a more conventional mov or mp4 container?

wwaag


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John Rofrano
Re: ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Apr 1, 2016 at 4:15:25 pm

[Rob Cioffi] "1. What's so special about this proposed format?"
Apple ProRes is the defacto standard for video professionals working on Macs. AVC/H.264 is the defacto standard for web video delivery. It makes perfect sense to me to want those formats if you are working on a Mac.
[Rob Cioffi] "2. I know SVP (or Windows) does not render ProRes. I've found a program called Scratch that claims to be the only Windows program that can genuinely render ProRes files."
That's sound like it will do the job but is the price really $650 for a one year subscription? You can buy a Mac Mini ($499) and Apple Compressor ($49) and for $548 USD render all the Apple ProRes files you want without even tying up your PC. I would be careful about how much you spend on this.
[Rob Cioffi] "I also found this for the H.264 piece"
Sorry, but the person in that video doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. Sony Vegas Pro 12.0 supports H.264 right out of the box. Just use the Sony AVC or MainConcept AVC render formats and both will produce AVC/H.264 MP4 files for your client. DO NOT put H.264 in an AVI container.
[Rob Cioffi] "My plan is to render an AVI with the H.264 codec in SVP then import it into Scratch then directly render it to ProRes4444. Does anybody think this will work?"
It's not a good idea to use a highly compressed Internet delivery format like H.264 to feed another encoder. Especially one that is generating high quality ProRes4444 files. You would need to render uncompressed to generate 4444 files to feed the ProRes4444 encoder but since the source is a 4:2:0 DSLR, you don't need to deliver ProRes4444.

You should be delivering ProRes422 HQ. You would have to see what formats Scratch accepts to know what to render out of Vegas Pro. If you are working in HD, and scratch can accept Sony MXF, I would use the HD422 1920x1080 50Mbps template. BTW, ProRes422 HQ is 220 Mbps and 1 hour of NTSC/29.97fps footage is about 100GB in size so you should think about how you will deliver these large files.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Rob Cioffi
Re: ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Apr 4, 2016 at 2:12:21 pm

Thanks, John. I was google guessing on this so you're points are very helpful. Scratch was a short term solution (just use it during trial period - never intended to buy a license).

So if I can deliver H.264 with Sony AVC or MainConcept AVC render formats can't a Mac user edit that file? Does ProRes H.264 bring something special to the table?


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Russ Froze
Re: ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Apr 1, 2016 at 8:22:25 pm

Hello Rob Cioffi,
All that John Roffrano has stated is correct and really there is no need to purchase a one year license for scratch. If you really need it to read ProRes when looking at the file properties then ffmpg can be used for the conversion. Myself I use a free codec developed by Blackmagic Design to accommodate cross platform compliance. The BMD codec is in a .mov wrapper at 10bit 4:2:2 220 Mbps and can be read on Mac, Win and Linux. To date I have yet to have a complaint as to non conformity while using this codec. It can be installed by downloading Desktop video From Blackmagic Design and will appear under QuickTime in the render menu.
Another option is to use Avid DNxHD which can also be read on a Mac. It is Avids answer to Final cut and has been in use for some time now. It too comes wrapped in the .mov wrapper. This codec can be downloaded from Avid for free.
Correct me if I am mistaken please, but is the native Canon 5 codec not already H264 in a .mov wrapper? If so bumping it up from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 is a futile exercise. Color information that was thrown away during recording cannot be added after. All that will happen is the container will be larger to accommodate color information that is not there. If the client requires 4:4:4 color information then the recording should have been done in CDNG using Magic Lantern which is also free.

As to the video, no comment but certainly do not wrap H264 in an avi wrapper. There is not a Mac on the planet that would understand how to read a DivX file unless it was running windows.

Lastly don't forget you can instal a Mac OS on a PC if you really want to and encode the files from there. Yes it works, how well that depends on your hardware.
Russ Froze


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Mike Kujbida
Re: ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Apr 4, 2016 at 1:24:59 pm

[Russ Froze] "Myself I use a free codec developed by Blackmagic Design to accommodate cross platform compliance. The BMD codec is in a .mov wrapper at 10bit 4:2:2 220 Mbps and can be read on Mac, Win and Linux."

Russ, I looked on the Black Magic site at https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support and found Desktop Video 10.6.2

Welcome to the Desktop Video software. This software includes everything you need to set up your DeckLink, UltraStudio and Intensity for video capture and playback.

Is this the codec you're referring to?
They ask what hardware I'm using but I'm not using any. All I want is the codec but I don't see a way to get it without telling them what hardware I'm using and what the serial number is. Is there a way around this? If this isn't the right software, what should I be looking for? Thanks.


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Russ Froze
Re: ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Apr 4, 2016 at 5:09:26 pm

Yes this is the codec and install is possible without any internal hardware.
Russ Froze


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Mike Kujbida
Re: ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Apr 4, 2016 at 5:14:38 pm

Thanks Russ. I missed the link on the bottom left that says Download only :) Grabbing it now.


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Russ Froze
Re: ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Apr 4, 2016 at 6:48:11 pm

Hey Mike,
I hope it serves you as well as it has me.
Russ Froze


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George Dean
Re: ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Apr 4, 2016 at 7:11:29 pm

Hi Russ,

Should I assume this is the same codec included with Resolve 12 and/or Fusion 8?


Best Regards.....George


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Russ Froze
Re: ProRes and H264 with Sony Vegas Pro 12
on Apr 4, 2016 at 11:01:31 pm

George, this is the codec used by Blackmagic Design cameras for recording 8 and 10 bit 4:2:2. And yes it will show up in the Resolve and Fusion encoder options.
Russ Froze


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