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Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12

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Don Hutcheson
Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 20, 2016 at 9:33:43 pm

I am preparing to do green screen shots and would like to know which camera is likely to produce the best results: a Sony Z1U (25mps output into AVCHD) or a Panasonic GH3 (60MPS into QuickTime format).Thank you.

Hutch


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John Rofrano
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 21, 2016 at 1:20:15 pm

The Sony Z1U is not AVCHD. It's HDV MPEG2. The Panasonic Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 shoots AVCHD. Both formats are 8-bit 4:2:0 so they will be equally poor for green screen work.

Since the Panasonic GH3 shoots QuickTime I would not use that with Vegas Pro because of Vegas Pro's limited Quicktime support. I would use the Z1U because it will edit a lot smoother in Vegas Pro.

It also depends on what Chroma Keyer you use. The one in Vegas Pro is rather primitive and needs everything to be lit perfectly. Other keyers like the one in Boris Continuum Complete are more forgiving.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Danny Hays
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 21, 2016 at 2:59:36 pm

You can bypass the HDV compression and bypass capturing to tape if you want to and get a better format to use with green screen with by capturing straight from the camera's image sensor. I have a Sony HVR-A1 HDV camera that I won a national green screen contest with. But one day when I put a brand new tape in it and turned it on, it died on me. I had to send it to Sony for repair. They said it blew the on board fuse and fried the motherboard and it would be 400$ to repair. I actually laughed for a second and called the Sony repair shop and asked him if he realized what he said. I told him that fuses are there to blow in order to protect the device so what use was that fuse for. I payed the $400 and never put another tape in it. I use it as my static camera and record out of the component and audio rca jacks to a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle, the USB3 version straight to an I7 computer with a solod state hard drive. It was very picky which chip set the computers motherboard had at first but I have found three other of my computers that work with it fine. It captures to Motion JPEG, 8 and 10 bit uncompressed avi if you have a fast enough computer and a raid hard drive system. That was back when I got it. I have two Sony laptops with a solid state hard drive and a Microsoft Surface Pro that will all capture at the high 10 bit uncompressed AVI. John is right though Vegas's chromakeyer is almost useless and Boris's is way better. I have found the After Effects is the way to go when you want to chromakey. It comes with Keylight which works Very good or you can install Primatte that is the best in my opinion. Checkout this tutorial on keying with shadows. You can make a very real looking video with this method.






Danny Hays
Samples of my Work can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ErnestDaniels/videos?view_as=public


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Don Hutcheson
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 21, 2016 at 5:57:40 pm

Thanks guys. Will order Boris.and later, a more robust camera than the Z1U. Is the Z7, with its larger sensors, any better? Other recomedations? BTW I thought the GH3 offers AVCHD or QuickTime file recording.

Hutch


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John Rofrano
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 21, 2016 at 7:07:49 pm

[Don Hutcheson] "Is the Z7, with its larger sensors, any better?"
It's not about the sensors. It's about the recording format. The Sony HVR-Z7U is also an HDV camera that shots 4:2:0. Of course the larger sensor will give you a better picture in low light. I've used my Sony Z1U for green screen work all the time so I'm not saying that it isn't workable. It's just not optimal. If you light the scene correctly you should be fine.
[Don Hutcheson] "BTW I thought the GH3 offers AVCHD or QuickTime file recording."
Quicktime is not a codec. It's a container. The GH3 shoots AVCHD or AVC/H.264. Both of those are 4:2:0 color space. I'm guessing it uses AVC/H.264 in a QuickTime container (which is a superset of AVCHD) but from the specs, I can't really tell. Either way it's all 4:2:0.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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George Dean
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 21, 2016 at 7:51:16 pm

Don,

Another route, if you are happy with the Sony, may be to add an Atoms Ninja 2, or Ninja Star recorder (about $300 US). If that worked, it should capture 4:2:2 from your Sony. This will give you ProRes HQ or DNxHD (both in an MOV container). Neither are optimal in Vegas without converting it to an intermediate that Vegas will like. Not ideal, just a thought to keep the expense down, but with a time expense of workflow to run the intermediate files.


Best Regards.....George


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Don Hutcheson
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 22, 2016 at 12:54:32 am

I researched that, even the new one from Black Magic, but I haven't found an external recorder that accepts Firewire400. They all accept HDMI (since that's the standard now). Thanks

Hutch


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George Dean
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 22, 2016 at 3:44:56 pm

Sorru Don, for some reason I picked off the Sony model that was an alternative (which had HDMI), not the model you currently have.

Best Regards......George


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Don Hutcheson
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 22, 2016 at 12:50:03 am

Thank you John. You're always a huge help!

Hutch

Hutch


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Danny Hays
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 22, 2016 at 1:45:29 am

Capturing from the sensor bypasses the hdv format and doesn't capture front firework or tape. It captures as 3 different avi formats.

Danny Hays
Samples of my Work can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ErnestDaniels/videos?view_as=public


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Danny Hays
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 22, 2016 at 1:56:30 am

I don't ever put a tape in my camera anymore or connect the fire wire to the computer. I capture with media Express software that is used for black magic video capture Hardware. Most every HD video camera has HDMI or component out that connects to the intensity shuttle.

Danny Hays
Samples of my Work can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ErnestDaniels/videos?view_as=public


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Don Hutcheson
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Mar 22, 2016 at 8:10:43 pm

Been researching this for the last few hours. Great workflow, Danny! I assume one could also go from the component output of the camera into the Intensity Shuttle input, then use the HDMI output of the Intensity Shuttle into an HDMI input of any of the current Ninja , Blackmagic or other external monitor/recorders. A component signal straight off the sensor recorded into a 10-bit 422 Pro Res file on a Ninja, Black Magic Video Assist (etc) would probably be superior to a highly compressed mpeg 2 tape file. Not as good as uncompressed straight into your laptop, but still better than the original tape file.

Hutch


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Don Hutcheson
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Jun 6, 2016 at 1:12:55 pm

Danny,
I got the Atomos Ninja 2 to use with the Sony Z-1U. Can I come off theZ-1U's RCA RGB and audio outputs and into the Atomos HDMI input using an adaptor cable that has RCAs on one end and HDMI on the other? I want to take advantage of the Z-1U's 3 CCD sensors while using the Ninja's lower compression. You mentioned using a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle to record to a laptop. Would I still need that as some sort of intermediary between the RGB outputs and the Atomos?

Hutch


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Danny Hays
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Jun 6, 2016 at 6:56:19 pm

Hi Don. Since your camera doesn't have HDMI out but does have component and audio out via two cables I hope you have, and your Ninja 2 has only HDMI in, yes you will need a converter. I did some research on Component to HDMI and cannot find cables that do that. There are HDMI to component cables. I found a converter box that should work for you. I gather you using a Mac since you Ninja does ProRes or DNxHD Encoding and Playback. Have you captured any 1920 x 1080 via the HDMI on it on it yet? If so, can your computer handle it without dropping frames? If so,check out this link. This method captures straight from the imager and bypasses the 1440 x 1080 HDV compression, at least with my Intensity shuttle it does.
http://www.lightinthebox.com/5-rca-component-rgb-ypbpr-to-hdmi-converter-v1...

This is just one of several converters I found. Let us know if this helps. Danny Hays

Danny Hays
Samples of my Work can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ErnestDaniels/videos?view_as=public


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Don Hutcheson
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Jun 6, 2016 at 10:01:41 pm

Thank you Danny. I will research this. Actually I have a Windows computer, but I am switching from Vegas Pro to Adobe Premier Pro since it apppears to handle ProRes.

Thanks

Hutch


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Danny Hays
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Jun 7, 2016 at 4:57:35 pm

I gather you need ProRes for a delivery format. Premiere handles most format types but has a problem with some .mts files and won't import the audio with the video. Two of my AVCHD cameras capture .mts files and I have to import them into Vegas and render out a wav file and import that separately into Premiere. If you're switching to premiere and using ProRes files, you may want to eventually switch to a Mac, at least for your video work. They are more reliable and usually the standard OS for video editing, and you can run Windows on it at the same time using Parallels. Do some research on it as it's very interesting reading. Regards Danny

Danny Hays
Samples of my Work can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ErnestDaniels/videos?view_as=public


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Don Hutcheson
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Jun 8, 2016 at 3:40:31 pm

Danny,

I don't need ProRes. I just want less compression than the Z-1U has and that was one of the Ninja's formats. I've read a lot about the difficulty Premiere has with ProRes, (and that Vegas has even more difficulty). Ninja also records DNxHD. Is that more compatible with Premiere? I'm also planning to use it with my GH3 and soon GH4.

Thank you,

Hutch

Hutch


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Don Hutcheson
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Jun 8, 2016 at 3:53:02 pm

Thanks Danny. When you record to your computer via the Intensity Shuttle, what capture program do you use? Vegas Pro?
Looks like I'll get an Intensity Shuttle and go that route. I assume it requires AC power. I was hoping a portable solution was possible for field shooting. On the Z-1U, I use the computer and Adobe "On Location" to give me a backup to tape, but that still captures the heavily compressed signal via Firewire 400.

Hutch


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Danny Hays
Re: Green Screen I Vegas Pro 12
on Jun 8, 2016 at 8:41:16 pm

Hi Don. I use Media Express. It comes with the video Desktop software download from Blackmagic. There's also a control panel program where you select which input to use during capture. Also the capture settings and the video you're inputting have to be exactly the same. Media Express allows me to capture in Motion jpeg which works on my 7200 rpm hard drives, 8 and 10 bit avi which only works on my identical Sony Vaio laptop that I put a solid state drive in and my Microsoft Surface pro, which is also solid state. The drive I/O speed is very important with a Shuttle. I can also capture with Sony VidCap 6.0.exe which is a separate program than vegas but it only shows the 8 and 10 bit avi settings. There is support for Premiere as well but I have not tried it. The Shuttle is powered off the USB3 connection and has no external power connection. Be advised that when I first bought the Shuttle, it was very specific on the chipset on the motherboard. Back then it required an x58 or p55 chipset so I built a desktop computer with a motherboard with that x58 chipset in it. That was about 7 years ago. Since then I found it works with my semi newer Sony vaio laptops and my Surface Pro. I would do some research to see if your computer is compatible before buying one. The Cow has a Blackmagic forum that may help. Also I found another forum where someone has a list of motherboard chipsets that work with some BM hardware here.
http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4277&p=26312#p26312
There are a lot of pissed off people that can't get one to work with any machine. I guess I'm lucky to have four that work with it. The quality of the 8 and 10 bit avi is stunning I have to admit but the file sizes are huge. If you can find someone who has one you could test with is your safest bet. Danny

Danny Hays
Samples of my Work can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ErnestDaniels/videos?view_as=public


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