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Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?

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Luke Arndt
Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 17, 2015 at 8:25:37 pm

I have some DNxHD 36 MXF files that were created with Media Composer, and I'm wondering if there is a way to import them into Vegas without converting them. The reason for this is I can then export a timeline from Media Composer to an AAF file and then load that into Vegas.


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John Rofrano
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 17, 2015 at 8:31:03 pm

[Luke Arndt] "I have some DNxHD 36 MXF files that were created with Media Composer, and I'm wondering if there is a way to import them into Vegas without converting them."
Vegas Pro does not support DNxHD in an MXF container. You'll need to convert them or figure a way to transcode them into a QuickTime MOV container which Vegas Pro does support for DNxHD.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Derek Moran
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 18, 2015 at 2:19:52 pm

I was about to ask the same question, because at the moment I feel like I am going round and round in circles, inside a maze.

I have been experimenting with Catalyst Prepare, Catalyst Edit, Davinci Resolve 12 and Vegas Pro. I am trying to come up with a new workflow that is as simple as possible, so I can edit and colour correct XAVC video out of my Sony A7s.

My first question has been answered - thank you.
Vegas Pro does not support DNxHD with .MXF wrapper. I gathered that was the case.

Is everyone aware of this paradox (new direction)?
Catalyst Prepare can export to DNxHD using a .MXF wrapper.
Catalyst Edit loves DNxHD .MXF video and it imports perfectly.

I have mucked around with Catalyst Edit, and although it is now much improved and heading in the right direction, it drove me crazy with constant crashing when I tried to apply a basic crop. So naturally I went straight back to Vegas Pro, only to realize that it can't import DNxHD .MXF video.

Next I jumped into Davinci Resolve 12, which I am really enjoying using, however it has one big drawback that is frustrating many Sony camera owners. It cannot import the audio track associated with XAVC video. The video works fine, just no audio. Apparently Resolve does not like PCM Audio in .MP4 wrapper. Some people have said to re-wrap XAVC.MP4 to XAVC.mov and then audio works.

I feel a pretty disappointed that I can't utilize Catalyst Prepare and Vegas Pro together.

Does anyone have a suggestion about what the best/easiest software I can use for converting Sony XAVC video into DNxHD video. I know I can use Vegas Pro to do this. Is this the solution ?

Final comment.
I wish I could ingest the XAVC video and convert to DNxHD with Davinci Resolve - send to Vegas Pro for editing and then send back to Resolve via .xml file.

Regards
Derek :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 22, 2015 at 2:41:43 pm

[Derek Moran] "Is everyone aware of this paradox (new direction)?
Catalyst Prepare can export to DNxHD using a .MXF wrapper.
Catalyst Edit loves DNxHD .MXF video and it imports perfectly. "
DNxHD in an MXF wrapper is Avid Media Composer's favorite format so this doesn't surprise me. If you are creating tools for broadcast and you don't support Avid formats, you didn't do your homework. If you are not using an Avid NLE, then DNxHD in an MXF container is totally uninteresting.
[Derek Moran] "I have mucked around with Catalyst Edit, and although it is now much improved and heading in the right direction, it drove me crazy with constant crashing when I tried to apply a basic crop. So naturally I went straight back to Vegas Pro, only to realize that it can't import DNxHD .MXF video."
Where are you getting DNxHD .MXF file from. An Avid editor that you are working with? or are you creating them?
[Derek Moran] "I feel a pretty disappointed that I can't utilize Catalyst Prepare and Vegas Pro together."
You certainly can. Stop exporting formats that Vegas Pro can't edit and you'll do fine. Catalyst Prepare is targeted and professional broadcasters. Most of which use a Mac workflow with ProRes 422. So Catalyst Prepare has to be many things to many people. If you know that Vegas Pro on Windows is your target, then you need to stick with formats that Vegas Pro can edit.
[Derek Moran] "Does anyone have a suggestion about what the best/easiest software I can use for converting Sony XAVC video into DNxHD video. I know I can use Vegas Pro to do this. Is this the solution ?"
Are you saying that Vegas Pro can't edit Sony XAVC video? Why are you converting to Avid DNxHD MXF?

I'm not following why you are so fixated on using Avid DNxHD in an MXF container.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Derek Moran
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 23, 2015 at 1:09:31 am

Thanks for the reply :)

[John Rofrano]Where are you getting DNxHD .MXF file from. An Avid editor that you are working with? or are you creating them?

Are you saying that Vegas Pro can't edit Sony XAVC video? Why are you converting to Avid DNxHD MXF?

I'm not following why you are so fixated on using Avid DNxHD in an MXF container.


I must have not explained myself clearly enough, I am getting DNxHD .MXF from Catalyst Prepare. I'm on Windows not Mac and just trying to create a simple workflow between Vegas Pro and Davinci Resolve 12, using Sony XAVC video. I was trying to see if Catalyst Prepare could be of any use to me.

Sony XAVC works perfectly in Vegas Pro, but is not supported properly by Resolve 12, so I need to convert the XAVC video into a good editing format that both Vegas Pro and Resolve likes and won't loose quality with re-rendering in both programs. I assumed that DNxHD was a good format to edit with on Windows, after following your tutorial many years ago about how to convert DNxHD in Vegas Pro.

I am not fixated by DNxHD .MXF! The thing I am concentrating on is DNxHD to edit with. The only reason I mentioned .MXF is because that is the only wrapper that Catalyst offers for creating DNxHD video.

If I take Catalyst Prepare/Edit out of the equation, converting XAVC to DNxHD .mov using Vegas Pro, is probably the best solution, unless you have any other ideas about this?

Derek :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 23, 2015 at 4:30:33 pm

OK, I understand now.

I don't use Windows anymore so my only experience with Catalyst Prepare is on a Mac. Vegas Pro is a Video for Windows application and as such it's native Windows format is the AVI container. DNxHD is an Avid format that can be delivered in a QuickTime or MXF container. Since Vegas Pro will not read Avid DNxHD in an MXF container your only option for using that codec is QuickTime. I would NOT do that because Vegas Pro has limitations when using QuickTime files that you probably don't want to experience.

If you are looking for a Digital Intermediary for Vegas Pro and Resolve on Windows why not use CineForm in a AVI file. Vegas Pro edits CineForm files quite easily. Can Resolve edit CineForm AVI files? Can Catalyst Prepare create CineForm AVI files on Windows? If you install GoPro Studio it contains a free CineForm codec that you can make a template for in Vegas Pro? I don't know if Catalyst Prepare can do the same, but it's worth investigating.

You made it sounds like you had a problem with catalyst Prepare and Vegas Pro and were blaming Sony but your "real" problem is with DaVinci Resolve and the fact that it seems to have very limited format support so you are trying to find a format that Catalyst Prepare and Vegas Pro and Resolve are all happy with. Resolve seems to be the problem here! Catalyst Prepare and Vegas Pro work quite happily together.

What about XDCAM? Catalyst Prepare and Vegas Pro have no problems with XDCAM. Can Resolve ingest XDCAM? What CAN Resolve ingest???

Your whole problem is that Wndows doesn't have a good Digital Intermediary format like the Mac does. This is another reason I moved to the Mac. I just use ProRes and every Mac applications reads and writes it just fine so I'm not wasting my time fighting formats like so many Windows editors do. Trust me... it's a strong argument to move to the Mac. ;-)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Derek Moran
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 23, 2015 at 10:19:57 pm

Thanks for the new information John. I was also thinking about using Cineform, but hadn't explored using that option for quite some time. I already have GoPro Studio installed and did not realize that it had made some more changes.

So I did a couple of quick tests.
#1. Imported Sony XAVC video into GoPro Studio and converted to Cineform. Video was converted very quickly into cineform.avi, however only video was outputted.

#2. Imported Sony XAVC video into Vegas Pro and converted to cineform.avi using Video for Windows/Cineform Codec. Not as fast as GoPro Studio, but audio is with video. In Vegas Pro all Cineform profiles are available, whereas only Low, Medium and High are present in GP Studio.

#3. Both cineform.avi videos import into DaVinvi Resolve perfectly. Vegas Pro version includes audio and works OK.

I have been using Vegas Pro for many years now and love using it. My philosophy is to always use the simplest and most reliable workflow. My trial period for Catalyst Prepare/Edit has expired and I don't see any advantage to using this software at the moment. I'll give Cineform a good work out for my Summer projects here in Australia.

I need to buy a new laptop and have seriously been considering a Mac Pro. Up until now I have boycotted all Apple products and services, due to the overly inflated prices Apple applies to all their products here and the tax avoidance scam they pull in Australia, pretending the stock comes from Ireland. However I think I'm about to cave in and loose my Apple virginity.

Cheers :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 24, 2015 at 5:34:06 am

I'm glad that CineForm looks like it might be the solution for you.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Don Cobble
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Dec 2, 2015 at 5:06:43 am

Sir John,

[I don't use Windows anymore so my only experience with Catalyst Prepare is on a Mac. Vegas Pro is a Video for Windows application and as such it's native Windows format is the AVI container.]

Do you not use Vegas any longer?
What is you program of preference now? If I may ask?
Don

PC 1
I7 2.8 Ghz 16GB Ram
SSD 850 Pro OS drive
2x 850 EVO Raid 1TB
Win 7 Pro 64bit OS
GeForce GTX 960

PC 2
I7 3930K 3.2Ghz
32 GB Ram
SSD 850 Pro OS drive
2x 850 EVO Raid 1TB
3-4 TB HD
Win 7 Pro 64bit OS
XFX Radeon R9 290

Vegas 13 & Adobe Production Premium CS6 & -Edius 7.5 Pro -Sony Catalyst Production Suite

Camera
Sony EX1 shoot in 1920x1080 30P


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John Rofrano
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Dec 3, 2015 at 12:57:40 am

[Don Cobble] "Do you not use Vegas any longer? What is you program of preference now? If I may ask?"
I still use Vegas Pro for photo montages with my VASST Ultimate S Pro plug-in but I haven't done one of those in quite a while. I use Final Cut Pro X to do all of my editing these days. I just needed something that was native to the Mac. Nothing against Vegas Pro but rebooting into Windows just to use it got tiresome. As Catalyst Edit gets more robust I'll definitely keep an eye on it.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Don Cobble
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Dec 3, 2015 at 4:09:15 am

Sir John
I have now tried everything except Final Cut Pro X. I have an old MAC pro with Final Cut 7 suite. When Apple threw everyone under the bus I said I would not upgrade.

Then Adobe went for the strangle hold via the subscription black hole. I stopped at CS 6 Production Premium Suite.

I even have Edius Pro 8 Work Group, it is very awkward but robust.

Vegas is making me nervous - I have Catalyst Production Suite - for me it is practically useless, but I thought it might be Vegas future?

So, I know you know more, of the behind the scene video world, So knowing what you hear through the Video Grapevine world, I am willing to make almost any leap what would you recommend for future proofing - ride it out with Vegas or do what you did and switch to FCP X. We do a weekly television broadcast and are putting a new suite in our church. What do you think? Just an opinion?
Thank You
Don

PC 1
I7 2.8 Ghz 16GB Ram
SSD 850 Pro OS drive
2x 850 EVO Raid 1TB
Win 7 Pro 64bit OS
GeForce GTX 960

PC 2
I7 3930K 3.2Ghz
32 GB Ram
SSD 850 Pro OS drive
2x 850 EVO Raid 1TB
3-4 TB HD
Win 7 Pro 64bit OS
XFX Radeon R9 290

Vegas 13 & Adobe Production Premium CS6 & -Edius 7.5 Pro -Sony Catalyst Production Suite

Camera
Sony EX1 shoot in 1920x1080 30P


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John Rofrano
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Dec 3, 2015 at 1:47:19 pm

[Don Cobble] "So, I know you know more, of the behind the scene video world, So knowing what you hear through the Video Grapevine world, I am willing to make almost any leap what would you recommend for future proofing"
Well... I don't have any "insider" info as to what is going on at Sony. Of course if I did, I couldn't repeat it anyway because of NDA's, but I only know what's been talked about in public. It's impossible to predict what any company will do in the future so "future proofing" doesn't exist. Who would have predicted that Adobe would abandon customers who couldn't afford to pay them a monthly random? So the future will always be unpredictable.
[Don Cobble] " - ride it out with Vegas or do what you did and switch to FCP X."
My switching had nothing to do with Vegas Pro. I switched to FCP X back in January before any of the talk about Vegas Pro not having another release started. I switched because I'm using a Mac and wanted to find a Mac-based NLE and Avid is an antique workflow with razor blades and bins, and Adobe is an unacceptable life-time contract, so Final Cut Pro X was the only reasonable choice to try and I found that I really like it a lot. I have to admit, the 12 year old media generators in Vegas Pro are pretty tired looking and when I dropped a media generator from FCP X on the timeline that had animated motion and floating dust particles like you see in all of the latest commercial spots on TV, a light bulb just went off in my head as to why am I building everything from scratch in Vegas Pro when it's all pre-made drag and drop production quality in FCP X. There are also features like automatically syncing external audio to video and treating it as a single clip (something Vegas Pro editors have been asking for since the DSLR craze started) that FCP X just does natural. It's an incredibly robust editing environment.

As for FCP X, you either love or hate the trackless magnetic storyline. I happen to love it. Others can't stand it and would rather fight with tracks. I'll never edit on a track based NLE again if I can help it. Having no tracks is liberating. You never have to worry about things getting out of sync from where you originally wanted them because they are connected and move together and out of each others way. You never have to worry about clips sliding under other clips and getting lost as they do with Vegas Pro's ripple edit. Once you've used Compound Clips you'll never want to go back to use Nested Projects. Having said that, Sony's Catalyst Edit is moving in a similar direction. They have nested timelines which Vegas Pro doesn't. So I'm confident that Sony is working on creating the next generation NLE that will make Vegas Pro editors happy. It's just a matter of timing.
[Don Cobble] "We do a weekly television broadcast and are putting a new suite in our church. What do you think? Just an opinion?"
I think you should keep using Vegas Pro until it stops working 10 years from now. That's what I would be doing if I still owned a PC. Honestly, there are people still editing with Vegas Pro 8. That's 5 years old but it still works for their purpose. Obviously there was nothing in future versions that they needed. These people could care less if there is ever a Vegas Pro 14 and why should they... Vegas Pro 8 does everything they need.

So the best "future proof" advice I can give is to keep using what you have until it breaks because no one knows what the future will bring or if it has any benefit over what you are using now. Heck, lots of editors are still using the now 5 year old FCP 7 and they have no plans of moving anywhere. IMHO, they are very smart. if it ain't broke... why look for a fix?

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Don Cobble
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Dec 3, 2015 at 5:22:22 pm

Ok - Sir John as usual you are blessing to the video world of learners! I thank You. Just do one thing for us, as Catalyst does become the New Vegas so to speak. Make some training videos! please. I think I might also go ahead and grab another MAC seeing as Catalyst if it becomes the New Vegas will run on a MAC and I have CS6 for a MAC that will run FCX and I will try it, My MAC is to old to run FCX.
Thank You again!
Favor from the King be with You!
Don

PC 1
I7 2.8 Ghz 16GB Ram
SSD 850 Pro OS drive
2x 850 EVO Raid 1TB
Win 7 Pro 64bit OS
GeForce GTX 960

PC 2
I7 3930K 3.2Ghz
32 GB Ram
SSD 850 Pro OS drive
2x 850 EVO Raid 1TB
3-4 TB HD
Win 7 Pro 64bit OS
XFX Radeon R9 290

Vegas 13 & Adobe Production Premium CS6 & -Edius 7.5 Pro -Sony Catalyst Production Suite

Camera
Sony EX1 shoot in 1920x1080 30P


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John Rofrano
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Dec 3, 2015 at 8:29:10 pm

Thanks for the kind words Don. I'm watching Catalyst Edit closely. We'll see about the training. ;-)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Steve Rhoden
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 17, 2015 at 9:38:31 pm

Do they import into Vegas with only the audio?

Steve Rhoden (Cow Leader)
Film Maker & VFX Artist.
Owner of Filmex Creative Media.
Samples of my Work and Company can be seen here:
http://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia


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Luke Arndt
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 17, 2015 at 10:49:29 pm

Nope, it doesn't look like Vegas will accept the video or audio MXF files.


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Steve Rhoden
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 18, 2015 at 6:40:23 am

Sorry... Then transcoding them into something else is your only option.

Steve Rhoden (Cow Leader)
Film Maker & VFX Artist.
Owner of Filmex Creative Media.
Samples of my Work and Company can be seen here:
http://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia


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Aaron Star
Re: Can I import DNxHD MXF files into Vegas?
on Nov 18, 2015 at 9:39:09 am

Ffmpeg can re-wrap the file to mov without recompression.


Catalyst prepare might be able to convert the files to something like hdcam-sr-lite, cineform, or even xdcam-ex since it's only 36mbs video.

Resolve would work too convert, or just work the footage in resolve. Resolve calls hdcam-sr-lite sony mpeg in an MXF container.


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