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Ultimate Vegas Machine?

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Matthew Jeschke
Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 8, 2015 at 6:19:45 pm

I maybe have asked a few questions on this but curious what your feedback would be. I have been slowly tweaking my machine for video editing.

Here's what I currently have,

- Vegas Pro 13 (LOVE IT!) no add-ons.
- AMD FX-8350 8 core 4GHz processor
- 256 GB SSD main drive w/ OS on it
- 2 TB 7200 capture scratch drive (where I store clips I render to SSD)
- 8GB DDR3 Memory
- AMD Radeon 7900 (made a HUGE difference in timeline playback)
- Two really crappy 1080p displays lol
- Windows 7 Ultimate, upgraded to Windows 10.

Challenges with current setup

- Slow to respond when searching files in Vegas's explorer tab.
- Task switching is a recipe for disaster ~ I tend to use windows explorer rather than Vegas's explorer if I need to find a clip.
- No brainer but almost impossible to edit on the small screens.
- Timeline playback seems to have the most difficulty on clip transitions and reversed clips.
- Dynamic ram preview almost worthless, assuming I don't have enough RAM maybe will do a couple seconds.

Thinking of further upgrading

- Ram to a minimum of 16 GB
- Capture scratch drive to SSD
- Dual Monitor 4k 29"+

Any Suggestions?

Anybody have further suggestions? Or perhaps software tweaks that help get more out of the system?

--------------------------------------

I design primarily Real Estate marketing, which is an excellent excuse to spend more time doing and ride off what I love, Photography :)

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 8, 2015 at 9:01:19 pm

[Matthew Jeschke] "Any Suggestions?"
Replace the AMD CPU with an Intel Core i7. AMD is horrible for video editing. Also you should have 2GB of memory for each core so 8 cores should have 16GB of memory to be optimal.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 9, 2015 at 2:19:10 am
Last Edited By Matthew Jeschke on Nov 9, 2015 at 2:19:55 am

Yeah I've heard that about AMD :/

How fast I7 would do the trick?

I'll have to grab some more memory as well :)

Thanks!

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 9, 2015 at 1:53:44 pm

[Matthew Jeschke] "How fast I7 would do the trick?"
I haven't kept up with the Intel line because I moved to Mac and don't build PC's anymore. Get the fastest Core i7 Quad that you can afford as a minimum. Check out the VideoGuys DIY builds for ideas on parts. My last Windows PC was a Core i7 Hex-core so to me quad-core is bare minimum. I mean the title of your post does say Ultimate.... Now I've got a 12-Core Mac Pro w/24GB of memory. To me, that's "Ultimate". ;-)

It just doesn't make sense to me to sink more money into a computer that is built around the wrong processor for video editing. Your other components look fine. It's your CPU that needs an upgrade.

Check out: Videoguys’ DIY 11: How to Build an Affordable Editing & Streaming Workstation with Balanced Components for the Best Performance.

They are recommending an Intel 4790k i7 Quad-Core. Just don't take their advice on the NVIDIA card and stick with your AMD Radeon for Vegas Pro work.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Rudy Galvan
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 22, 2015 at 11:21:22 am

I am planning on following the DIY 11 build, however I do not know which AMD Radeon GPU I should use for Sony Vegas 13. After doing some research, I found that others recommend the R9 280x. I also found a site that does a OpenCL benchmark test: http://www.hardwareluxx.com/index.php/reviews/hardware/vgacards/32697-xxl-t...

The GeForce GTX 970 & 980 test a little better than the Radeon R9 280x.(cost is almost double for Nvidia GPU) Another long article: http://www.gpurendering.com/technology/CudaVsOpencl.html

Basically concluded that the higher end Nvidia GPU's will give you the best of both worlds, Cuda and OpenCL(I also use Photoshop, which this article notes that it uses Cuda). However, many have said that the Nvidia cards don't do rendering well on Sony Vegas 13. So are the tests just bogus and don't reflect the real world application?

Leaning toward AMD GPU since I will be using Vegas much more. Should I consider the Nvidia GPU?

Any help will be appreciated. Thanks


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 23, 2015 at 6:29:46 pm

[Rudy Galvan] "The GeForce GTX 970 & 980 test a little better than the Radeon R9 280x.(cost is almost double for Nvidia GPU)"
Yea, they are not in the same class. There is a significant difference between the R9 280 Series and the R9 290 Series and as you can see in the benchmark the R9 290 is on par with the NVIDIA 970 series. I would recommend the Radeon R9 295 or 295X if you can afford it.
[Rudy Galvan] "Basically concluded that the higher end Nvidia GPU's will give you the best of both worlds, Cuda and OpenCL(I also use Photoshop, which this article notes that it uses Cuda). However, many have said that the Nvidia cards don't do rendering well on Sony Vegas 13. So are the tests just bogus and don't reflect the real world application?"
All benchmarks that don't use real-world applications are bogus. They are a fabrication of how well hardware performs but are not in indication of how your application will perform. I don't care how well a benchmark says that NIVIDA handles OpenCL... users of Vegas Pro have reported much better performance with AMD cards so however Sony is using OpenCL in Vegas Pro, it seems to favor AMD cards. Considering that Sony and AMD had a partnership, makes this no surprise. I'm sure they worked very closely with AMD to squeeze every once of performance out of their cards.
[Rudy Galvan] "Leaning toward AMD GPU since I will be using Vegas much more. Should I consider the Nvidia GPU?"
I think Adobe now supports OpenCL. You should check. My son is using my old 2008 Mac Pro 8-Core w/Radeon HD 5870 with Photoshop CS6 and it performs very well. I see no need to buy an NVIDIA card just for Photoshop.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Rudy Galvan
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 24, 2015 at 2:13:43 am

Thank you very much for the response.

If there were a benchmark on benchmark results, it would be very poor. There are countless examples of where the benchmarks are not reliable, that is why I was leaning towards an AMD card based on actual user input. Just did not know if Nvidia had improved on their later models for OpenCL.

I will take your advice on the 290/290x.

A few more questions:

Is there a particular brand you recommend or one I should stay away from.

Are there any power or heat considerations based on the DIY 11 build.

Thanks Again


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 26, 2015 at 9:47:01 pm

Thanks John for all the great tips and reference to the DIY build page! FYI ~ your help on creative cow has fastracked a lot of my efforts. Really appreciate it!

I asked another video editing buddy about his setup which is pretty much all out awesome (his company pays for it). He has DUAL graphics cards & Xeon processor in a Mac setup w/ 16 gig memory and SSD drives.

I sprung for the extra memory & larger monitor (39" 4k TV). The memory made a HUGE difference in rendering but system still lags on timeline playback, specifically reversed clips and transitions. I noticed on renders before it would render a few frames then stop... render a few more, then stop. Now it renders straight through w/o any lag. My next big purchase will be a better Motherboard and processor (memory I have is compatible with i7 as well)

Picture of my current Hodge-podge setup. FYI ~ ESD Nightmare, I don't recommend setting PC on carpet lol... Trying to track down a Dual monitor DVI splitter cable to hookup my 3rd monitor :/



--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 28, 2015 at 1:54:13 am

You're welcome Matthew. I'm glad I could help you accomplish your goal faster. Good luck!

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 28, 2015 at 1:24:54 am

[Rudy Galvan] "Is there a particular brand you recommend or one I should stay away from. "
SAPPHIRE makes good cards as does ASUS. I don't know of any that are bad. Mts manufacturers are working from the AMD reference design so all of the cards are very similar. I have a SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7950.
[Rudy Galvan] "Are there any power or heat considerations based on the DIY 11 build. "
You want a case that has good cooling. My last PC build used a Corsair Carbide Series 500R Black with a CORSAIR H100 liquid cooler and everything stayed nice a cool. Just make sure that the case has good air flow and that you use a quality 850W+ PSU so that you have plenty of stable power.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 30, 2015 at 3:19:36 am

I had a friend scrapping his bitcoin setup. He had TONS of GPU / Graphics Cards laying around.

I had the unique opportunity of testing a Radeon 290x against a 7950. Both cards were from Sapphire.

I tried them on a 1080p HD timeline in vegas 13 pro. The projects had standard text, transitions, stabilized clips, etc. I also rendered the same project with both cards and didn't see a difference in render times.

Maybe this would be different if I was working at 4k or with fancier timelines.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 30, 2015 at 5:11:41 pm

[Matthew Jeschke] "I tried them on a 1080p HD timeline in vegas 13 pro. The projects had standard text, transitions, stabilized clips, etc. I also rendered the same project with both cards and didn't see a difference in render times."
You probably weren't pushing these cards hard at all because the R9 290x has about twice the performance of the HD 7950 (which is equal to the R9 280). HD isn't going make these cards break a sweat. Try some 3D compositing with 3D Track Motion or add a Bump Map or something that takes a lot of compute cycles.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 6, 2016 at 4:23:07 am

Makes since. I by no means know which tasks are most CPU / GPU intensive :)

Curious my biggest problem is timeline playback. It skips when I transition from one clip the the next. It's VERY subtle but messes up when I try to edit clips to music.

I'm thinking this is a drive issue? Problem is worse when I use the 7200 RPM capture scratch drive. If I move project to my SSD it's better but not perfect.

Any tips? Newer faster SSD? Or is this also processor related?

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 6, 2016 at 12:56:04 pm

[Matthew Jeschke] "I'm thinking this is a drive issue? Problem is worse when I use the 7200 RPM capture scratch drive. If I move project to my SSD it's better but not perfect."
Part of the problem is CPU/GPU related. Regardless of how fast your storage is, Vegas Pro still needs to blend the frames to make the transition. Your weak AMD CPU is probably the cause here.

You could try using Tools | Selectively Prerender Video... (Shift+M) to pre-render the transitions so that they play back smoothly. This might help.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 6, 2016 at 4:47:04 pm

Thanks John, yeah I'd figured it might be the CPU. Been using Shift+M / Dynamic ram preview a LOT but it get's a bit tedious. I'm going to spring for a new processor once I get some more $$ from current work :) Thanks!

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 6, 2016 at 5:11:14 pm
Last Edited By John Rofrano on Jan 6, 2016 at 5:11:37 pm

You're welcome Matthew. Glad I could help.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Scott Francis
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 6, 2016 at 6:45:40 pm
Last Edited By Scott Francis on Jan 6, 2016 at 6:46:04 pm

Make sure you are also disabling resample on ALL you video clips. This keeps timeline playback from bring as good as it can be. I almost always can keep things smooth now since I learned that, thanks again to good ole' John R!!!


Best!

Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 7, 2016 at 8:29:13 pm
Last Edited By Matthew Jeschke on Jan 7, 2016 at 8:30:12 pm

For sure! I wish sony had a preference to disable resampling by default. I found a script though & added a button for it. All I have to do is click the button and save the project. I disables resample on all the clips :)

Maybe there's a better way? I'm acutally not sure why anybody would bother with the re-sample it really does seem to adversely effect the quality every time I use it.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 7, 2016 at 9:21:35 pm

[Matthew Jeschke] "I'm acutally not sure why anybody would bother with the re-sample it really does seem to adversely effect the quality every time I use it."
That's because it's broken. If it were implemented correctly you wouldn't be saying that. Resample is needed when converting between frame rates that are not multiples of each other. The most popular is film's 23.976 to NTSC TV's 29.970 and Vegas does an outstanding job of moving both ways between these two. What's broken is that "smart resample" is too "dumb" to realize that going from 60-fps to 30-fps only requires dropping every other frame so instead it tries to blend the frames and makes a big mess. This is why people shooting 60p disable it and why I never have to (because I shoot 60i). So having smart resample be the default has never effected me adversely.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 7, 2016 at 10:42:50 pm

Ah thanks John, I had kind of assumed it was to adjust frame rates but wasn't for sure. I'll have to try the regular resample :) You're awesome, you know darn near everything about video editing! Thanks for the info.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 7, 2016 at 10:47:37 pm

[Matthew Jeschke] "...you know darn near everything about video editing!"
Yea, my head is filled with lot of stuff... now if I can only remember where I put the car keys. lol :-D

Thanks for the kind words.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Scott Francis
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 8, 2016 at 3:53:32 pm

John,

Why do I get better playback on all my video clips when it is disable verse enable, even when I am using an interlaced format?
I have also noticed that on some of my clips, Vegas incorrectly reads it as progressive when it is interlaced (mediainfo confirms that). I have to set it properly in the clip properties, any idea why?

Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 9, 2016 at 3:10:49 pm

[Scott Francis] "Why do I get better playback on all my video clips when it is disable verse enable, even when I am using an interlaced format?"
Does your project properties match your media properties? Because if they do, resample will not be used at all so it doesn't mater what you set it to.
[Scott Francis] "I have also noticed that on some of my clips, Vegas incorrectly reads it as progressive when it is interlaced (mediainfo confirms that). I have to set it properly in the clip properties, any idea why?"
What format are the clips? It sounds like either a bug or maybe an unsupported format.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Mar 9, 2016 at 3:25:41 am

Curious has anyone played with these Intel PCIe SSD solutions? They look like a beast of a drive, http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-750-series-ssd,4096.html

Might have to add them to my dream build :)

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Mar 9, 2016 at 1:45:35 pm

[Matthew Jeschke] "Curious has anyone played with these Intel PCIe SSD solutions? "
Not the ones from Intel but I have an OWC Mercury Accelsior E2 PCI Express SSD as the boot drive in my 2010 Mac Pro 12-Core and it's scary fast:

OWC had these before Intel came out with theirs but I assume the Intel's get similar results.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Mar 9, 2016 at 4:21:01 pm

Oh wow that's a bit less expensive. I'm thinking about snagging one... Which size did you get? It's a bit pricey yet for the TB+ ones.

I'm also trying to find an EIA 19" PC case. I have a small server setup in my house to run everything and might put the PC in there with a terminal in my office to run everything.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Mar 9, 2016 at 9:25:17 pm

[Matthew Jeschke] "Which size did you get? It's a bit pricey yet for the TB+ ones."
I got the 480GB one for $379.75. It's just for the OS and Applications. I have a 4 disk 8TB RAID5 for my video data.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Pavel Dynzik
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Apr 13, 2016 at 4:54:33 pm

Hi John, hi all.

I use Vegas versions 8 to 11 on 32bit notebook SONY VAIO PCG 8131M,

64bit versions 12 and 13 on 4 Core Intel i7 2670QM 2,2 GHz Sandy Bridge, 16 GB DDR3, GeForce GT555M 3GB, WIN 7 and on 4 Core Intel i7 4700MQ 2,4GHz Haswell, 16 GB DDR3, ATI AMD Radeon HD8690A 2GB, SSD, WIN 10.

For short videos is OK. But now I use Boris BCC 9, green screen with Chroma Studio, make backgrounds effects and my videos are more, than 1-hour long. I make 1080p 29.97 videos with Nikon SLR camera and JVC GYHM-100E (35 mbit, MP4, XDCAM EX 35 Ver. 2). I render in Main Concept 1080p. For render 30 Minute, I need 12 hours!

I can make .MOV videos and render also to another format, but I think, it will be not better on my computers.
I will make 4K videos too. For background I will buy After Effects.

I will buy for this new machine. I read many forums Czech and German, but first here, I find very practice comments. Thanks for this. (Sorry, my English isn´t good enough.) I will buy components and these will build a professional firm. Case, PSU, Cooler… But they don´t know, what is for Vegas Pro better. I needn´t the best, but my machine must work in future.

I read here:
- 6 Core or 8 Core processor
- XEON v3, or v2, Intel i7 5960X, 4960X … thanks for link to cpubenchmark.net

Need I two video cards, John? When the MainConcept AVC encoder won't use any card newer than the Radeon HD 6000 series. I need for quick render an old video card - Radeon HD 5870? And for edit in Vegas pro for example an R9 295 or 295X?

How many GB RAM DDR3 I need for begin and optimal?

What else is important?

Thank You for any answer. Pavel Dynzik


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Apr 13, 2016 at 6:17:23 pm

I really haven't been following the latest PC hardware since I use a Mac Pro now, so I'm just going to generically recommend an Intel Core i7 6-Core, 32GB memory, SSD, and Radeon R9 290/390 series GPU. I realize that GPU won't work with MainConcept AVC and if that's really important to you use an older card but I don't think you need two.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Pavel Dynzik
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Apr 18, 2016 at 8:13:30 am

I can buy older processor Xeon E5-2670. It is for older motherboard with LGA2011 socket and with DDR3. I can buy also board for two processors Xeon E5-2670 – its more expensive.
Can Vegas Pro use two processors when I render video? Thanks’ for answer.


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John Rofrano
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Apr 19, 2016 at 2:13:03 am

[Pavel Dynzik] "Can Vegas Pro use two processors when I render video?"
Yes, I have two 6-Core CPU's. That's 12-Cores total with 24 Threads and Vegas Pro makes good use of the majority of it. I think it only allows 16 threads but it doesn't care if they are all on one processor or two.

You will need Windows 7 Professional to use 2 processors. I don't think Windows 7 Home will use 2. Maybe Windows 8.1 or 10 is different. You should check just to be sure.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Nov 28, 2016 at 8:58:38 pm

Finally pulled the trigger on the purchase. I bought all the parts minus a fancier graphics card. I think I will use my old one for time being. Was just getting way to choppy with new 4k footage I get and am upgrading my DSLR with an Atomos Ninja ☺

My current machine has Windows 10 Pro. However, I'm not sure I can transfer it as it was the free upgrade. I'm curious, what is the different between Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Pro? Do both support the functionality needed (e.g. how much memory can they access, how many cores do they support etc). I googled but found little info on this. Am I okay running a editing machine on Windows 10 Home?

FYI ~ Specs on new Machine:

i7 6800k 6 cores
Asrock x99M killer 3.1
Deep Cool 240EX Liquid Cooler
Samsung 950 pro 512gb M.2 PCIe
Cosair Carbide 9011070 Case
32GB DDR4 PC4-1700 Cas15 - This is a bit of a pooch but was 30% cheaper than latency of 13. Hopefully it's fine.

Reuse:
2TB 7200 RPM capture scratch (wanted to get a 1 TB SSD but figured I'll wait a little bit).
ATI Radeon 7900 (someday might replace with two GPU(s) but we'll see how this unit works).

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Aaron Star
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 1, 2016 at 6:17:41 am

"what is the different between Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Pro?"

Mainly Enterprise/business class needs with Pro vs Home. Home cannot host a Remote desktop session, and only supports 128GB of RAM vs 2TB on Pro. Most of the other things are focused around business needs like joining a Domain, group policy enforcement, and encrypting the boot disk. WIn10 Home should be fine for a single workstation editing setup.



If you have an x99 chipset, I would have selected the i7-5830K or 60K over the 6800.

5830K = 40 PCI 3.0 lanes off the CPU, which will support 2 full speed GPUs (16x), and still support a 8X SSD PCI card or Blackmagic interface without crossing the DMI bridge.

6800 = 28 lanes for only 1 full speed (16X) GPU

Hopefully the 7900 GPU is a 7970 or 7990, as those had very high TFLOP scores for the day.


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 2, 2016 at 8:57:23 pm
Last Edited By Matthew Jeschke on Dec 2, 2016 at 9:13:09 pm

Thanks for the help clarifying Windows versions. I'll have to jot down your notes for my next build 😉

My hope with this build is it hack out:

1080p ProRes and NDxHD editing / color grading from my Atomo Ninja 2
1080p RAW from Magic Lantern (on rare occasion).
4k h.264 & h.265 from DJI Mavic Drone

I'm running SVP 14 and the free version of Davinci Resolve.

I'm not exactly sure which graphic card I have. Only that it is 7000 series Radeon. I threw away the boxes. I had bought it form a guy mining bitcoin. All I knew is it made a night and day difference in SV timeline playback on my old system. I assumed with this build my next big purchase would need to be a new graphics card... Or two for the system but sounds like the processor I selected might not do well with two graphics cards?

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 2, 2016 at 9:48:17 pm

Why do you want two graphics cards ?

Vegas Pro only support a single gpu !

Davinci Resolve 12.5 free Windows version supports two gpu's - BUT only one gpu for processing and one gpu for display - so if you want two gpu's for Davinci Resolve 12.5 free version - buy a cheap gpu for display !

My system
Intel i7 5960x 8-core
Asus Deluxe II motherboard
64GB Memory
4. SSD and 3. Harddrive 7200/10.000 rpm
1300W psu
Two AMD R9 390x 8GB GPU's
BlackMagic Intensity Pro 4K card
Davinci Resolve 12.5 Studio - full version


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 2, 2016 at 11:32:17 pm
Last Edited By Matthew Jeschke on Dec 2, 2016 at 11:36:48 pm

Shucks I just realized... Had I known that I would have built the mini system I was specing out. Only reason I went with the larger motherboard & case was to have flexibility so I could update in future to two graphics cards :/ None the less very good to know ☺

Was the 64 GB of memory beneficial? Did it help with dynamic ram previews? Why so much memory? I had thought of buying another two DIMMs to have a total of 64 GB.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride of what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 3, 2016 at 12:05:26 am

Would there be a disadvantage to using Windows 7 Ulitmate for a high powered Editing Machine?

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Aaron Star
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 3, 2016 at 1:46:20 am

Vegas actually does support 2 GPUs, but maybe not the way most think. If place two AMD GPUs in your system, you could leave one GPU with no monitors plugged into it. Then have all monitors plugged into the other GPU. With no monitors plugged in, Windows will not include that card in the Display system. That leaves the open card free of display overhead.

Inside Vegas, you can choose the free card as your OpenCL compute device under preferences. This makes Vegas use only the free card for timeline compute (GPU FX) along with the compute units on the CPU. Clearly you would want to do this only if you are trying to dedicate the most amount of compute units you can afford. I would not attempt this without an x99/Xeon board, and not with less than 32 compute unit cards. Preferably your "compute card" would have 44-64 compute units.

This configuration would also leave your display card free to do display only. The key is having enough PCI lanes to support 2 GPUs at 16X, for full bandwidth and low latency. Also resisting the temptation of using your best card for display, and shooting yourself in the foot by dedicating an older card to compute. Compute is just as important as display, possibly more important with the displaying speed that most GPUs perform at these days.


Here is a list of caveats:

90% of the users out there fail to understand that their system boards will not FULLY support 2 GPUs at 16X. This is one of the main benefits of the x99 board with the 5960 CPU.

Laptops are not as powerful as desktop/workstation architectures. Laptop GPUs are miles behind desktop GPUs in GFLOP performance.

90% of users attribute poor GPU acceleration or stability with poor software implementation, when it is probably user hardware selection that is at fault. There were a couple versions of Vegas that stumbled with GPU, but those days were in the infancy of OpenCL. Today cheap binned GPU chipsets that are gimped out of the gate, or poor motherboard design are more likely causes of instability.


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 3, 2016 at 2:52:41 am

This is great information. Thanks for sharing.

1. Can you elaborate on "compute units".

2. Also how does Radeon cross-fire work... I always thought it ended up functioning as if there was one graphics card in the system.

3. I actually have several older GPU units laying around I could easily use one of them for the display. How do I optimize PCIe bandwidth? Such that the rendering card get's the better slot?

Thanks!

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Aaron Star
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 3, 2016 at 8:19:47 am

1. Can you elaborate on "compute units".

https://forums.khronos.org/showthread.php/9429-Relation-between-cuda-cores-and-compute-units


With AMD you can divide the stream processing units by 64, that will give you the compute units. Marketing likes the larger number, since that is what NVidia started doing. OpenCL is optimized by having the largest amount of Compute Units working to solve a problem. The CPU will perform as a compute unit virtually, which is why Vegas will run with no GPU enable BTW. The CPU compute units are basically determined by the number of CPU cores you have, including the HT cores.

The FLOPS of a CPU are generally much less than a GPU, normally around .200-1GFLOPS. The R9-Fury-X single chip/card is around 8500 GFLOPS. The So you can see why having the GPU enabled is a good thing.

If you go to some place like techpowerup, you want to look for AMD cards that have XT chip designations. The XT line will have the max compute units, and are less likely to have suffered manufacturing errors. All the top AMD Pro line cards run XT chips.


2. Also how does Radeon cross-fire work... I always thought it ended up functioning as if there was one graphics card in the system.

Crossfire is card linking tech that basically divides the screen lines in Game mode by half. Each GPU only renders half the screen. This does not work with 3D visual apps, or NLEs like vegas.


3. I actually have several older GPU units laying around I could easily use one of them for the display. How do I optimize PCIe bandwidth? Such that the rendering card get's the better slot?

Research the x99 chipset clock diagram, then determine which slot is connected to the CPU directly. Normally the 1st 16x slot is the CPU PCI lanes.

6800 = 28 lanes for only 1 full speed (16X) GPU

With less than 32 lanes on the CPU, the motherboard will auto switch your slots and divide the bandwidth between the cards. Making them both 8x speed. I would just stick with one GPU, unless you get a CPU that can take advantage of the full x99 design.

The remaining CPU PCI lanes are spread out across the other PCI slots and onboard devices like M.2, or thunderbolt. All this switching tech on desktop boards can actually create problems, and is a good reason to go Xeon class boards and chips.


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 3, 2016 at 7:25:19 pm

#3... I have not opened the CPU yet. Am considering exchanging it for the one you mentioned. I'm curious will this cause issue with the PCIe NVMe drive I got? From what I hear you saying it sounds like the processor may divide up bandwidth between the graphics card and any other PCIe devices including the NVMe drive.

... I'm thinking this old Radeon 5450 I have laying in my scrap pile would run a 4k monitor but not confident.

FYI ~ You're awesome, and yes marketing SUCKS. They only tell you the wiz bang stuff that makes no difference, not what you really need to know. Years ago I designed processors in Graduate School. There's so much information that never makes it to the marketing materials.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 3, 2016 at 7:38:43 pm

Uh oh... Never mind, I just realized the processor you mentioned is $1000? ☹ If that's really the case, I may have to wait 6 months until they are obsolete and then buy one ☺

My first editing machine was an old number crunching box from work. They were throwing it away. I was amazed at how well it worked for what it was. The processors were antiquated when I got it. I believe they were older AMD operteron processors. I had two processors with dual cores each. It worked extremely well for what it was. Unfortunately, it got taken out in a lightening storm ☹ When I built a newer system based on AMD FX processor setup it wasn't much if any faster than the old antiquated setup I had.

Thanks again for your awesome help!

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Aaron Star
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 5, 2016 at 5:42:52 am

The 5930 is a 6 core version that is half the price of the 5960, but it still has all the PCI lanes of the 5960.


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 5, 2016 at 7:13:35 pm

All their model numbers, and suffixes, prefixes, and worthless spec sheets get confusing lol

Would this be the processor? I'm going to try and exchange mine.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117403

They put a K at the end of the model number ?

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 5, 2016 at 7:31:12 pm

The K means that the processer has a unlocked mulitiplier and can easily overclocked to much higher frequencies !


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 5, 2016 at 7:32:43 pm

Nevermind, I anwered my own question. I'm having computer problems will not let me view your old posts. You put the full model number in there, i7-5830K

Thanks!

PS. I cannot figure out how to edit or take down an old reply. Did they remove that feature form the form?

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 6, 2016 at 4:17:39 pm

Hi Aaron Star

"If place two AMD GPUs in your system, you could leave one GPU with no monitors plugged into it. Then have all monitors plugged into the other GPU. With no monitors plugged in, Windows will not include that card in the Display system. That leaves the open card free of display overhead.

Inside Vegas, you can choose the free card as your OpenCL compute device under preferences."

Can you show how to do and where in Preferences ?

Best,
Ole


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Aaron Star
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 7, 2016 at 8:05:24 am

If you have more than one GPU that is capable of operating as a compute device, or what Vegas terms GPU acceleration, you can select from your GPUs by going to:

Options-->Preferences-->Video Tab-->Then use the drop down select your GPU.

Verify operation by using a GPU heavy FX like Min/max, and monitoring GPU load during playback.

If you have an AMD GPU. AMD makes a nice "system monitor" application that shows both CPU and GPU in one task manger. You can also use GPU-z, or Windows Performance Analyzer if you are feeling really geeky.


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 7, 2016 at 9:09:32 am

Hi Aaron

Thanks for the answer !

best,
Ole


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Aaron Star
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 3, 2016 at 2:15:29 am

One thing to keep in mind with Win10 Home vs Pro, is that 10 Home has the same max memory as Windows 8-64bit release. This shows evidence that Win10 Home could be the same memory control system from Windows8-64 . The fact that Win10 Pro supports 2TB shows evidence of another upgrade in memory control. This is one of the main under the hood reasons to move from Win7.

Max memory is not about how much memory you have installed at the moment. Max memory to me, is about MS spending man hours on re-designing the old system to make improvements to the way things operate. Back in the day, NT3.5 seemed insane with its ability to address 4GB of memory. 2TB of memory may not be as far off as we think.

I prefer using the best, most up to date, memory system. Which normally is the most recent OS release.

Win10 Pro - 2TB Memory Max

Win8-64 Pro - 512GB

Win8-64 - 128GB

Win7-64 - 192GB

Win7-64 Premium - 16GB


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James Redmond
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 10, 2016 at 7:07:01 pm

Aaron, Thanks for all the great information! Your information about setting up a second graphic card just for rendering was amazing!

I am also considering rebuilding my system to speed up rendering in Vegas 13 (haven't installed 14 yet). Generally I do a lot of editing then have several projects that need to be rendered. So I am always looking at ways to speed up the rendering.

Questions:

Thinking of the Radeon Pro WX-5100 graphic board for only rendering as you recommended. Would it work well with Radeon RX 480? I will use the 480 for display with 2 monitors. I currently have a GTX 970. Would that work or are you recommending both graphics card to be AMD?

I currently have a i7-5930k. Thinking of the i7-6950 with 10 cores instead of the i7-5960. Looks like it does 40 lane processing. Is it worth a 50% increase in price over the 6900k? Looks like it is a 15% increase in performance.

I have with 32 gigs of DDR4-2401 (1200 Mhz). How much ram would you recommend and what speed?

Currently have a Asus x99 Deluxe version 1 motherboard. Thinking of switching to the MSI Extreme Gaming Intel X99 LGA 2011 DDR4 USB 3.1 Extended ATX Motherboard (X99A GODlike Gaming ). Seems to have more USB 3.1, which is becoming pretty standard.

Thanks for all your advice! James

James Redmond
Dynamic Videos, Inc.
Rogers, AR USA


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 17, 2016 at 5:28:29 pm
Last Edited By Matthew Jeschke on Dec 17, 2016 at 7:08:50 pm

My head is spinning with all this graphics card talk... i understand NVIDA maybe as good as Radeon now for OpenCL which is the platform SVP uses. I too am shopping for a graphics card... still leaves me confused as to the plarithra of Radeon cards available for purchase. How does one determine which card is the best (or right) card to play with Vegas?

I am looking at number of simultaneous streams

Onboand memory.

Clock speed.

What else should one consider? Fyi I am not even able to tell which is the latest generation GPU. seems they have 200's 400's... then the 7000's 8000's firepro etc... what ishould best for video editing lol

Any pointers are appreciated. Thx :)

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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James Redmond
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 22, 2016 at 6:36:48 pm

Well I built the system as described earlier with the i7 6950, Radeon 480, MSI X99A GODlike Gaming motherboard, 32 gigs ram and and AMD Radeon Pro WX-5100 graphic board.

Could not get the Radeon Pro WX-5100 graphic board to be used in Vegas. Called AMD regarding having dual graphics and the tech support said there would be a conflict with the two different drivers and recommend I use 2 of the same kind of graphics cards. So I am returning the WX-5100 and getting another Radeon 480.

Good luck with it all, James

James Redmond
Dynamic Videos, Inc.
Rogers, AR USA


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Aaron Star
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 23, 2016 at 9:28:01 pm

James sorry for taking so long to get back to you.

What was the reasoning for choosing the WX-5100 in the 1st place? You pretty much only need a FirePro card if you are trying to setup a 10-bit display path. I mean with regards to Vegas operation. Blackmagic has cards that will give you a monitor with 10bit display output if you need that type of path. If you want to go directly from your GPU, or have other applications that will utilize a Pro GPU features then the FirePro is a good choice too.

The 6950 or BWE series has the benefits of the improved stable memory speed of 2400 over 5960 series. Your board maybe able to overclock the memory past either 2100 or 2400, but make sure to run memtest86 overnight to verify there are zero errors with the controller or memory at new speeds.

When it comes to price performance , or is this one worth the other, that is really up to you to decide with your own testing and financial circumstances. Is your business writing off, or is the purchase just an expensive new toy.

When it comes to which series to buy, I would always buy the CPU with the most cores, operating frequency, the newest instruction sets, and best memory bandwidth. This all depends on how long you plan to use the CPU. One can only assume that Magix and other NLEs are actually working to take advantage of new instruction sets and OpenCL version as they come out. Sony in the past was not however. Buying an older CPU, means that advancements in software that takes advantage of new instructions will require a CPU upgrade. There is some leap frogging here.

Anandtech has a good article on the 6950x you may want to read.

PCper has some good into on the 6950x:

"Our synthetic performance tests start off very well for the Core i7-6950X, resulting in scores that are 29% faster than the 8-core 5960X and nearly 50% faster than the Core i7-6700K Skylake processor. "


There does not seem to be much testing going on with OpenCL benchmarking like Luxmark or others. Clearly posting some results of a Vegas test file in 32-FP mode would be a good judge of performance, but our NLE community is small in reality. Even AnandTech stopped using Vegas as benchmark, I feel because Sony no long owns it, and the results were topped out with almost no difference in new GPU releases. When in fact the benchmark file was not evolving with the times and resolutions, color depths.

A new Vegas test file that is playback/rendering a 4K EXR format with effects in 32-bit full mode, and then also rendering out to a 4K 10-bit HEVC format would be a good new benchmark. This would increase the complexity of the project and show a much greater difference in the speeds of the compute hardware setups.


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Aaron Star
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 23, 2016 at 10:05:31 pm

Mathew,

I would look at AMD X series chips with stream processors that evenly divide by 64. Wiki will provide a list of what series chip is being run in the different cards. Buyer beware, since some newer models are actually less performance than older X series. New models generally support other new features than pure compute performance.

RX480
290x
390X
fury-x


Look a the GFLOP ratings between AMD cards. Most of the GPU effects that need the most acceleration are using math that you want the highest GFLOP rating. The best CPUs do not come closet to say a Fury-X in terms of GFLOP performance. Most of what you want from OpenCL assist is the quick return of complex math or floating point results while working in 32-bit FP mode.

"Core i7-6950X+DDR4-2133 = 497.1GFlops"
Fury-X = 8,600 GFLOPs

GPU Memory bandwidth and normally in goes hand in hand with bus width, both are good indicators.

PCI3.0 is only 16GB/s roughly and so most GPUs and System memories are well beyond this, and yet they share large amounts of data between them. So any increase in PCI speeds is normally a good thing to look for. For example, PCI3.0 interface is not only faster than 2.0, but 3.0 offers less overhead and so offers a speed increase there as well.

Make sure your motherboard allows for all your extra interface cards (capture cards, PCIe SSD, even M.2, ect) to run on the CPU PCIe lanes and not the southbridge (x99 or other chipset designations.)

OpenCL versions would matter more but the software manufacturer (Magix) needs to implement the newer versions of OpenCL into the software. I believe Vegas 13-14 only supports 1.2.

Hope this helps.


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 23, 2016 at 11:12:30 pm
Last Edited By Matthew Jeschke on Dec 23, 2016 at 11:20:41 pm

Hey Aaron,

Thanks again ☺And shucks shucks shucks ☹ I finalized my build. I was EXTREMELY confused on the graphics chip-set / GPU from Radeon. I knew I wanted a Radeon but NONE of their model numbers make any since. I bought the newest setup and assumed it would be the best... I bought a RX 480 8GB.

I opened vegas on the new machine. I added a few effects to a on 4K h.264 video from my S6 phone. Specifically I stabilized using ProDad. It did analysis somewhat quickly... Then playedback without a hitch at full quality. I then tacked a HitFilm noise reduction effect and tried to playback at full quality. I could see the timeline preview stressing. It was dropping frames at that point. The setup has a feeling that it's not silky smooth and super muscular so to speak. I had thought was because of processor only having 6 cores (i7-5930k). It must be due to GPU?

I was extremely confused as to why the older architectures cost a tad more like the 290x. I looked at a lot of OpenGL bench tests... Then chose the tried to pick out the unit with most # of compute units, stream processors, and graphics card memory on a single GPU (36 / 2304 / 8gb respectively).

Here's my final spec list:
- Radeon RX480 8GB by MSI (this should have been a 290x, 389x, or Furry-x?)
-Intel I7-5930k 6 core 3.5Ghrz (would have liked a few more cores but compromised for price).
- X99 MB - ASRock X99M Killer 3.1 (fyi- don't buy ASRock memory is limited & hard to setup).
- 64GB DDR4 - 4x 16GB DDR42133 / PC4-17000 CL 15-15-15-36 G.Skill Memory
- 512GB - Samsung 950 VNAND PCIE M.2 SSD
- Windows 10 Pro
- Liquid CPU cooler - Deep Cool Captain 240 EX
- Case - Corsair Carbide Air Series 240 Case
- 1TB SSD capture scratch - Samsung 850

If I had it to do over again I would have bought a MB with integrated graphics for displays. Then installed the GPU for editing system (computation / rendering / timeline playback / etc)

FYI ~ If you have further critique... I may sell off or return some of the components and buy others ☺

I had a VERY hard time specing this system out. The important features are not very well marketed. They sell on gymics lol Thanks a MILLION for your help you were a lifesaver.







PS. A few people wanted to see how and why I built the system the way I did. I tried my best to explain, probably I have mis-represented some Items in the video. If so please do not be shy let me know my blunder. I will redo the video. It was INSANELY hard to spec out the system and TONS of misinformation on the internet.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Aaron Star
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 24, 2016 at 4:14:49 am

That system build should work very well with Vegas.

The RX480 should be pretty close to an R9-290X. The 480 will have support for more modern features (things like DP1.2A ports), use less power, and only a slightly less compute power (36 vs 44 compute units).

Here is a GPU grid I compile from wiki and other tech sites:

https://1drv.ms/x/s!Au_dLvF4HRtrhP9j2EWb3NDQXNQ3Bw

I need to update it to the latest specs out there.


The CPU is the only thing I would maybe change with your configuration, but only if you were going to add another GPU ,PCIe SSD, or capture interfaces like a Blackmagic card. You want the extra PCIe lanes from the CPU to support another GPU at 16X. I understand about the CPU costs however, the 6950x in the high-end Xeon range.

Since the newer x99 boards are now doing 2400 DDR4, you may want to make sure your BIOS is up to date. You may be able to run stable at the high freq. Test your system overnight at the higher frequency to make sure it is stable.

Were you able to get your system loaded NVME? There should be an NVME controller under computer management. That mode is what you are looking for with that M.2.

Run "winsat mem" from a admin command prompt, to verify you are getting the memory bandwidth you think you should be getting.

winsat disk will test the M2 performance, which you should be seeing like 1GB/s sequential and a huge amount of random performance (much higher than SATA)


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 24, 2016 at 6:00:43 am

I have everything setup and am playing with an old project I put together. The timeline has 1080p H.264 clips in it. These clips are on SSD Hard Drive. I have a track which has the following Sony effects applied:

- Color Corrector
- Color Curves
- Soft Contrast

When I do a render to Sony .MP4 file it renders faster than I could actually play the clip! Super awesome.

However, when I do timeline playback at Preview Best Full... This timeline skips.

I am concerned as the biggest reason for me to do the build was for timeline performance. I want to be able to playback the project and preview it without having to do tons of renders (even RAM previews) to see the result.

I'm looking at your spreadsheet... thanks a million for sharing it ☺ Curious would the Fury X be a much better card. In most of the columns it looks better... If so what about the Fury 2X?

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Aaron Star
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 24, 2016 at 7:04:40 am

There have been several threads on the benefits of using an intermediate format for editing. You may want to use that project of yours as a test. There is significant overhead of decoding H264 group of pictures back into individual frames.

Create a new project to convert all your source media to xdcam-ex.MXF, or Cineform.avi (installed with GoPro software.), or even HDCAM-SR-LITE.MXF. For 4K media, convert to XAVC-intra or Cineform.AVI.

Move all your h264 media out of the main folder into a subfolder.

Move all the intermediate files into another subfolder.

Re-open the project and point vegas at the new intermediate files.


Do some play back tests to see what works the smoothest for what you want to do. You should see when Scrubbing on the timeline that you see all the frames played back quickly, vs jumping from frame 1 to frame 50 using h264 files.

Best Full setting uses a different scaler than Good, and does full computation on the frames. Preview does only what is needed to display the resolution being shown, and drops info to prioritize frame rate. I pretty much only use Best Full when color correcting or doing graphics. Then use Preview or even draft when editing to max frame rate.

With Vegas, you learn that rendering is sort of like baking. You create at less than best perfect image, and bake/render for 30 mins to see the final result. You may need to re-render, but you learn over time what to check at best full ram preview to lessen the need to re-render finals.

Final render using a Best Full Sony AVC/XAVC(4K) profile that matches your project. If you are going to YouTube, you can upload XDCAM (smart render for unmodified footage) and Cineform directly. YouTube and other services will throw away any extra bit rate.


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 24, 2016 at 7:14:36 am

Aaron, you are SUPER helpful, massive understatement ☺ Here are the scores from my tests you mentioned in previous post.



Here is an extra one I ran with Crystal Disk Mark



I am still super confused on if the Fury X would have made any difference with the timeline playback.

H.264 transcoding makes since as that stuff is so highly compressed. I noticed my higher bitrate (less compressed) 5dm2 footage had no troubles playing back with effects. It was my nasty Samsung S6 footage that dropped frames on timeline playback.

What is this a sign of? CPU or GPU power? I think you're leaning towards CPU power?

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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Ole Kristiansen
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 24, 2016 at 8:25:22 am

"It was my nasty Samsung S6 footage that dropped frames on timeline playback."

I think it's because your Samsung S6 recorder with variable framte rates !

best,
Ole


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James Redmond
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Dec 27, 2016 at 10:18:31 pm

Aaron, Thanks again for all your valuable information. Sorry it's taken a while to respond with the holidays plus I decided to do a clean install of Windows 10 Pro and it is taking me a while to get everything back and working. I'm almost there.

After reading these series of posts about using dual graphics cards, what I understood was to have one inexpensive card for display and other powerful card for rendering. In the earlier posts I thought your had recommended the FirePro series. When I had the 480 and the 5100 installed I could not get Vegas to use the FirePro 5100. That is when I called AMD tech support and they said to have both graphics card exactly the same. It had to do with the drivers. So I went with two 480.

I am very happy with the setup and the speed. I have the 6950x i7 processor with 32 megs of ram. I have a documentary that I've been working for the past several years that is 90 minutes long. About three weeks ago I rendered it and it took about 6 hours. With my new setup it took about 90 minutes! Which is great for me.

Thanks again for your support. Happy New Year, James

James Redmond
Dynamic Videos, Inc.
Rogers, AR USA


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Dave Haynie
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 10, 2017 at 4:47:15 am

[James Redmond] "After reading these series of posts about using dual graphics cards, what I understood was to have one inexpensive card for display and other powerful card for rendering. In the earlier posts I thought your had recommended the FirePro series. When I had the 480 and the 5100 installed I could not get Vegas to use the FirePro 5100. That is when I called AMD tech support and they said to have both graphics card exactly the same. It had to do with the drivers. So I went with two 480."

That's probably a better rig anyway.

The "professional" cards are not well understood by most people, but they're generally slower to much slower than same-year "standard" cards. And that's from either AMD or nVidia.

Basically, the pro cards are made from older chips. When AMD or nVidia make a new chip, it's only possible when they can sell the thing in the millions. They don't sell millions of pro-model GPUs for these FirePro or Quadro cards. But they do sell stability. So the drivers for any Pro card get a year or two of regular updates, and meanwhile, they're looking at the chip, maybe making a tweak to fix a bug, probably enabling some extra memory, but that's about it. So these hit the pro market with drivers that are very solid.

Sometimes there are artificial restrictions on the standard cards. For example, nVidia has a few 64-bit OpenGL functions that run really slow on their standard cards compared to the pro cards. However, a few intrepid comedian-hackers out there re-coded those operations in CUDA for consumer cards, and they basically matched the pro versions. So it's a software/driver handicap. But nothing that seems to ever affect video use.

In the past, you might have had some advantage in the extra memory on a pro card. But there's been such a push for larger memories on standard cards, to support multi-monitor and 4K gaming and that sort of thing. I looked at the latest when buying my upgrade last fall, and concluded that the RX480 was the best deal going. I could pay twice as much for a FirePro and get lower performance.

One other advantage of the pro cards -- they're usually in a single-slot form factor. If I really wanted four GPUs in my system, that would become an issue. That's the kind of thing some serious OpenGL users are looking for, like film animators, mechanical CAD people (I work with one of those guys... he's got a 64" 4K monitor on his desk at the office).

Once example of this: I have a nVidia Quadro 4000 in my office PC... something the mechanical guys were pushing on me when I started there in 2012. A few years ago, I was playing around with digital currency and the experimental "ARS Coins" done on ARS Technica. I had set up my home system, with my 6 core i7-3930K and my Radeon HD6900.. that was cranking out some real coins. So I set up the same render at the office using the 4-core i7 and the nVidia... yawn. Not so good. Then I decided to try the AMD A6 (forget the version) in the tiny 1U rackmount PC I built as basically just a audio recorder. It was actually outperfoming the stand-alone performance of my 6-core i7, and it was just edging out the Quadro 4000. You could buy over a half-dozen of those A6 systems for the price of the nVidia! Sure, not a terribly fair thing, and I don't use either the music PC or the office PC for video, so there's no actual Vegas test there.

-Dave


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Matthew Jeschke
Re: Ultimate Vegas Machine?
on Jan 10, 2017 at 5:40:33 pm

Very helpful info none the less. Thanks for sharing your experience with the RX480.

I had similar thoughts... I guess with a little time the future will tell as software and drivers better support the newer hardware. It was very trippy though seeing less equipped boarders selling for much more. The machine renders video like a beast. It renders faster than the length of it's timeline in many circumstances. Sometimes full quality timeline playback is a little glitchy though. I always watch these studios playback their timelines in Youtube tutorials and think... "am I the only one that cannot playback a timeline without dropping frames?" They must have $10,000 editing machines LOL

On the note of single card width graphics cards... My friend built a BUNCH of bitcoin machines. He bought some adapter and was able to plug in a BUNCH of graphics cards. They didn't plug into the motherboard. The adapter broke them out and they plugged in to a chasis he built. It was pretty cool.

He preferred the 290x... but this was a couple years ago. Then bitcoin crashed. I had bought my older 7800 card from him. He had a 290x which I should have bought but the 7800 seemed to reder video quite well at the time I bought it.

Thanks for sharing the post. I think this will be valuable for future people interested in building a Vegas Pro Machine. There was VERY little info of ANY help online.

--------------------------------------

I do Architectural Photograph & Cinematography as a part of being a Residential Real Estate Consultant.

Some of my work can be seen at,
http://www.youtube.com/keystoaz/
http://www.vimeo.com/matthewjeschke/
http://www.keystoaz.com/

PS. It's an excellent excuse to ride off what I love, Camera equipment :)


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