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Pan/Crop image zoom problem

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Eugene Volchek
Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 28, 2015 at 4:54:35 pm

Hi, guys! I have a problem and hope you can help me :)

So I need to zoom a lot of images in my project, but when i'm using Pan/Crop, my image starts flickering. I tried to zoom using Track motion, and it's going fine. I'm very bad at English, so I made a short video to describe my problem better :)







I tried to check "Reduce flickering" option, adding some blur, different types of resampling... nothing helps.

I can't always zoom using Track motion, cause there are a lot of images, and with Pan/Crop i can just Copy/Paste zoom settings.

Hope you understood my problem and what i'm tried to say :)


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Mike Kujbida
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 28, 2015 at 7:27:50 pm

When using Pan/Crop, apply a very light Gaussian Blur FX.
Set Horizontal to 0.0 and Vertical to between 0.001 and 0.003


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Eugene Volchek
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 1:18:07 am

Thanks for the quick respond. I already tried blur, I wrote it in my first message. It doesn't help.


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Wayne Waag
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 1:29:38 am
Last Edited By Wayne Waag on Oct 29, 2015 at 1:30:27 am

Something is really screwy. By all rights, if there are problems with the image, the pan/crop zoom should look better than track zoom. By chance have you inadvertently applied both pan/crop and track zoom at the same time? Probably not, but in any case, a screen shot of your timeline would be most useful as well as a shot of your pan/crop Video Fx window. Also your project settings and the pixel dimensions of your image.

wwaag


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Mike Kujbida
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 1:54:43 am

In that case I have some questions for you.
It looks like the image was scanned.
What kind of scanner were you using?
How big was the image you were scanning?
What dpi setting did you use?
Was the original high gloss or more like a newspaper?
Better scanners have an option for different paper types. Does yours have this and, if yes, what option did you use?


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john bolton
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 8:22:48 am

What is the size of the image.. If it is more than twice the size of the project settings then it does cause that problem with fine detail.. Don't forget, regular DVD is only 720x576 ( PAL )


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Eugene Volchek
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 12:59:55 pm

[Wayne Waag] "Something is really screwy. By all rights, if there are problems with the image, the pan/crop zoom should look better than track zoom. By chance have you inadvertently applied both pan/crop and track zoom at the same time? Probably not, but in any case, a screen shot of your timeline would be most useful as well as a shot of your pan/crop Video Fx window. Also your project settings and the pixel dimensions of your image."

Timeline:



Pan/Crop settings



Project info:




Image info:






[Mike Kujbida] "In that case I have some questions for you.
It looks like the image was scanned.
What kind of scanner were you using?
How big was the image you were scanning?
What dpi setting did you use?
Was the original high gloss or more like a newspaper?
Better scanners have an option for different paper types. Does yours have this and, if yes, what option did you use?
"

Yes, the image probably was scanned, but I downloaded it from the internet, so I don't know any information about scanner, and I can't get better quality images. And I don't really need them, cause, as I mentioned before, Track motion does this job great, without any flickering. I just don't know why Pan/Crop can't do it.

[john bolton] "What is the size of the image.. If it is more than twice the size of the project settings then it does cause that problem with fine detail.. "
Image size: 1000x1476. Project size: 1280x720.

[john bolton] "Don't forget, regular DVD is only 720x576 ( PAL )"
Don't know how this can help, but I tried to render with 720x576 (PAL) setings.. Nothing changed :(


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john bolton
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 2:03:22 pm

Can you put the image on dropbox ( or another download )so we can look at it and find a solution


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Eugene Volchek
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 2:27:19 pm

Here it is:

http://www.filedropper.com/asm00221


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john bolton
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 2:50:51 pm

Hello I have set a project to 1280x720 and added the picture,. Then with Pan/Crop zoomed in and rendered to 1280x720 mp4. I do not see any flickering when viewing in Media play or VLC.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y5inewzqumdnhyo/cartoon.mp4?dl=0

John


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Wayne Waag
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 3:11:00 pm

[Eugene]

The timeline shots are very good. On your first one--the timeline--it would appear that you have some type of track motion effect applied to your Pan/Zoom track, Track 6. From the screenshot, we can't tell exactly what has been applied. Click on the track motion icon and select default. In fact you have some type of track motion effect applied on your other tracks as well. Intentional? If not, I'd reset to default for those tracks as well.

Since you copied the image from an online source, you obviously can't re-scan it. During the initial scanning, someone didn't use the descreen option found on scanning applications that reduces the checkerboard appearance found in newspaper or magazine sources. In any case, the image itself is not the problem. As John just posted, there should be no flickering. My bet is that you've inadvertently applied some track motion effect.

wwaag


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Eugene Volchek
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 4:18:15 pm
Last Edited By Eugene Volchek on Oct 29, 2015 at 4:23:16 pm

[john bolton] "Hello I have set a project to 1280x720 and added the picture,. Then with Pan/Crop zoomed in and rendered to 1280x720 mp4. I do not see any flickering when viewing in Media play or VLC.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y5inewzqumdnhyo/cartoon.mp4?dl=0"




[Wayne Waag] "[Eugene]

The timeline shots are very good. On your first one--the timeline--it would appear that you have some type of track motion effect applied to your Pan/Zoom track, Track 6. From the screenshot, we can't tell exactly what has been applied. Click on the track motion icon and select default. In fact you have some type of track motion effect applied on your other tracks as well. Intentional? If not, I'd reset to default for those tracks as well.

Since you copied the image from an online source, you obviously can't re-scan it. During the initial scanning, someone didn't use the descreen option found on scanning applications that reduces the checkerboard appearance found in newspaper or magazine sources. In any case, the image itself is not the problem. As John just posted, there should be no flickering. My bet is that you've inadvertently applied some track motion effect."


Yep, sorry, I forgot that I applied track motion zoom on every pic, before I zoomed it in Pan/Crop. I tried to zoom without Track motion pre-zooming and the problem is gone.

So, we found the main problem, thanks everyone for help! But now there is another problem appears :)

That pre-zooming stage with Track motion is crucial part of my project. I need to pre-zoom all images one by one in the right spots, and then I need to apply Pan/Crop zoom settings to all images at once (so called Ken Burns effect).
That means that I need to combine Track motion and Pan/Crop zooms (and I got flickering) or I need to use Pan/Crop zoom twice (but I can't do that, cause applying Ken Burns effect to all images erases pre-zooming settings). So, how can I manage this situation? Maybe you guys have some good advices? :) Anyway, thanks everyone for help, you already helped me a lot.


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Wayne Waag
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 5:21:30 pm

[Eugene]

Yep, sorry, I forgot that I applied track motion zoom on every pic, before I zoomed it in Pan/Crop.

Glad we found the problem.

That pre-zooming stage with Track motion is crucial part of my project. I need to pre-zoom all images one by one in the right spots, and then I need to apply Pan/Crop zoom settings to all images at once (so called Ken Burns effect).
That means that I need to combine Track motion and Pan/Crop zooms (and I got flickering) or I need to use Pan/Crop zoom twice (but I can't do that, cause applying Ken Burns effect to all images erases pre-zooming settings). So, how can I manage this situation? Maybe you guys have some good advices? :) Anyway, thanks everyone for help, you already helped me a lot.


I'm still a bit confused about exactly what you are trying to do. In any case, pre-zooming with track motion is NOT a good approach since you automatically reduce the resolution of the image to your project resolution. My recommendation is to forget about track motion completely and do everything using Pan/crop settings. Start with your first image, open the pan/crop window, right click and select Match Output Aspect. Then, create your Ken Burns effect using keyframes. If you want to apply the same effect to the remaining images, it is very easy. Simply copy the event, select the other images, right-click, and Paste Event Attributes. The same settings will be applied to the selected images.

wwaag


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Eugene Volchek
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 6:21:43 pm

[Wayne Waag] "I'm still a bit confused about exactly what you are trying to do. In any case, pre-zooming with track motion is NOT a good approach since you automatically reduce the resolution of the image to your project resolution. My recommendation is to forget about track motion completely and do everything using Pan/crop settings. Start with your first image, open the pan/crop window, right click and select Match Output Aspect. Then, create your Ken Burns effect using keyframes. If you want to apply the same effect to the remaining images, it is very easy. Simply copy the event, select the other images, right-click, and Paste Event Attributes. The same settings will be applied to the selected images."

Okay, I'll try to explain better.
I got a lot of images, some of them are comic book pages (you can see them in my previous messages). At first, I need to zoom every picture to a needed block of a comic page. Then, when ALL pictures are zoomed in a right place, I need to apply Ken Burns effect to all pictures at once. But when I apply that effect, my pre-zooming settings replaced with the Ken Burns effect settings. And that is the problem.


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Wayne Waag
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 6:34:58 pm

Okay, I'll try to explain better.
I got a lot of images, some of them are comic book pages (you can see them in my previous messages). At first, I need to zoom every picture to a needed block of a comic page. Then, when ALL pictures are zoomed in a right place, I need to apply Ken Burns effect to all pictures at once. But when I apply that effect, my pre-zooming settings replaced with the Ken Burns effect settings. And that is the problem.


In that case, do what Mike suggested. Crop your images before importing into Vegas. Be advised that when you do, your project resolution will be greater than your image resolution. Rather than filling the entire screen you may want to add another track below with some sort of background to ensure that your final comic book image will not look too degraded.

wwaag


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Mike Kujbida
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 6:01:01 pm

[Eugene Volchek] "That pre-zooming stage with Track motion is crucial part of my project. I need to pre-zoom all images one by one in the right spots, and then I need to apply Pan/Crop zoom settings to all images at once (so called Ken Burns effect)."

I do this all the time with stills that need to be cropped before being added to my timeline.
Crop the images to the desired sizes in Photoshop or your program of choice. If you don't have one, grab IrfanView (it's free) as it has a crop feature built into it.
Save the cropped images with a new name so that you don't do anything to the original image.
Once this is done, add them to the timeline and apply Pan/Crop as desired.


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Eugene Volchek
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 6:50:16 pm

I thought about that, but it's a very long way to do this. I need to crop very large amount of images, and it will take a lot of time, to open every image in photoshop, cut it, then save it, and then place it in vegas. There must be another way to do this, only in vegas.

Maybe somehow I can crop images in Pan/Crop and then make something like a nested project to each image, and then put those "nested projects" on a timeline and apply Pan/Crop zooming one more time? It's a solution, but it will take a lot of time to make a nested project to every image, so maybe there is a way to do it faster? Or create a nested project to all images at once? Maybe batch rendering can be helpful to do this? I think there are a lot of ways to do this, but my vegas knowledges are too small to find a better solution. Maybe you know any trick how I can apply Pan/Crop once and then do some magic to be allowed to apply it one more time? :) Sorry for my English, I know I'm awful, but hope you can understand what I'm saying :)


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Wayne Waag
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 10:00:49 pm

it will take a lot of time, to open every image in photoshop, cut it, then save it

Since apparently you do have Photoshop, you can create an Action for each of the three panes and then batch process all of your images very quickly. Open one of your images in Photoshop and create a Crop preset (WxHxResolution) for each of the three panes. Then create an Action for each of three presets. Create three folders with copies of the images to be processed. Use a rename utility to add a sequence number to the end of each file name. E.g. in one folder, 1 for top pane, in the second folder, 2 for middle, and in the 3rd folder, 3 for bottom pane. Then, once they are cropped, you can put all files into a single folder and they will be in the correct sequence for each image (top, middle, bottom) for easy import into Vegas.

Then batch process each of the three folders using the Actions you've created, move the resulting files into a single folder and import into Vegas.

wwaag


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Eugene Volchek
Re: Pan/Crop image zoom problem
on Oct 29, 2015 at 10:37:34 pm

[Wayne Waag] "Since apparently you do have Photoshop, you can create an Action for each of the three panes and then batch process all of your images very quickly. Open one of your images in Photoshop and create a Crop preset (WxHxResolution) for each of the three panes. Then create an Action for each of three presets. Create three folders with copies of the images to be processed. Use a rename utility to add a sequence number to the end of each file name. E.g. in one folder, 1 for top pane, in the second folder, 2 for middle, and in the 3rd folder, 3 for bottom pane. Then, once they are cropped, you can put all files into a single folder and they will be in the correct sequence for each image (top, middle, bottom) for easy import into Vegas.

Then batch process each of the three folders using the Actions you've created, move the resulting files into a single folder and import into Vegas."


Thanks for the good advice! Sadly, not all of my images have this 6-box structure. And sometimes I need to zoom different places, not only top, middle or bottom part. But I get the idea, I can create a lot of presets, group images with the same zoom point and then batch process every group. Sounds great, thank you very much again for the advice :)

Also I found another way to do it. I have a script which can add regions to all selected events, and I can zoom images once, mark all events with regions, use batch render on them, and then apply another zoom to rendered events.

So, what do we have, in the end :)
I can batch crop usual images (6-blocked) with Photoshop (using Wayne Waag method). And then, batch render all other images left with "hard" zoom points. And no flickering, no tiring handwork :)

Thank you, guys, for the help, you are awesome. My problem was finally solved! :)


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