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Diane Sosnoski
Problems rendering
on Oct 8, 2015 at 5:56:06 am

Hello,
I'm shooting with a Canon Vixia HF G10. The video file extension it produces is MTS.
A clip on the Vegas 11 timeline -> Properties -> Media, shows the video format is AVC - 1920 X 1080 X 2 - 29.970 NTSC.
Properties ->General, shows Type: MPEG-2 Transport Stream
Streams
Video: 29.970 fps interlaced, 1920x1080x12, AVC
Audio: 48,000 Hz, Stereo, Dolby AC-3

The project template I used was:
HD 1080-60I (1920 X 1080, 29.970FPS)
NTSC Pixel Format 8-Bit

1. I'm on a PC and want to give some videos to a Mac user for editing.

2. I also want to render for You Tube which I've done previously (before Vegas 11 and Windows 10) but can't do now.

QuickTime using the Photo JPEG codec was recommended on this forum but when I render with that I get audio and a black screen.

Main Concept AVC/ACC MPEG 4, avc Internet HD 1080p was also recommended but I have Match Project Settings checked and don't have that template as an option.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong or how to proceed. Any advice will be most appreciated!



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Aaron Star
Re: Problems rendering
on Oct 8, 2015 at 7:06:33 am
Last Edited By Aaron Star on Oct 8, 2015 at 7:10:52 am

The work flow I would use with that camera is just take your clips, and render them to a 1080-30p-XDCAM-EX.MFX profile. Then edit the xdcam clips, and keep the .mts around if you need them for some reason. Render your media to the same XDCAM profile. YouTube supports uploading that file directly, MP4 conversion is not needed.

So basically you would have a 3 step vegas project process.

1 - Convert to xdcam-ex, add FX and color correct if needed.

2 - Vegas edit project that matches the XDCAM format settings (match media button.)

3 - Render Edit project to Sony AVC.mp4 or XDCAM-EX.mxf, and upload directly to YouTube. XDCAM.MXF will smart render segments of edit timeline, so you gain back conversion time here.


Render profiles can be created to suit your needs, so if a format profile does not exist, create it. 1080-60P is one that is contemporary, but needs to be created under render settings. There is a customize template button in the render window.

Stay away from rendering to QuickTime formats in windows. Apple makes sure to keep their software gimped on the PC, for obvious reasons.

There is a utility available from Sony that allows FCP on the Mac the ability to edit XDCAM footage. So it is a good format for both. Of course like any religious conversation, there will be several passionate pleas for the their way of doing things. Sony AVC.MP4 @ 22-26MBS would work as well, xdcam is just more pro. DNxHD, or HDCAM-SR-Lite formats would be good as well if they are using AVID or Resolve.

http://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/professionalformatsandworkflo...


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Diane Sosnoski
Re: Problems rendering
on Oct 8, 2015 at 9:11:10 pm

Hi Aaron,
Thanks for getting back to me. I am looking at the possible render settings in XDCAM EX (*.MP4) and 1080-30p-XDCAM--EX.MFX profile is not an option.

The only custom settings available under XDCAM EX (*.MP4) are:
SP 1440X1080-50i, 25 Mbps CBR
SP 1440X1080-60i, 25 Mbps CBR
HQ 1280x720-24p, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1280x720-50p, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1280x720-60p, 35Mbps VBR
HQ 1440x1080-24p, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1440x1080-50i, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1440x1080-60i, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1920x1080-24p, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1920x1080-50i, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1920x1080-60i, 35 Mbps VBR

So, I'm not sure how to proceed.



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Diane Sosnoski
Re: Problems rendering
on Oct 9, 2015 at 6:01:58 am

Hi Aaron,
Thanks for getting back to me. I am looking at the possible render settings in XDCAM EX (*.MP4) and 1080-30p-XDCAM--EX.MFX profile is not an option.

The only custom settings available under XDCAM EX (*.MP4) are:
SP 1440X1080-50i, 25 Mbps CBR
SP 1440X1080-60i, 25 Mbps CBR
HQ 1280x720-24p, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1280x720-50p, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1280x720-60p, 35Mbps VBR
HQ 1440x1080-24p, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1440x1080-50i, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1440x1080-60i, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1920x1080-24p, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1920x1080-50i, 35 Mbps VBR
HQ 1920x1080-60i, 35 Mbps VBR

So, I'm not sure how to proceed.

I just looked at the link for editing XDCAM on a Mac, looks kind of overwhelming.



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Aaron Star
Re: Problems rendering
on Oct 9, 2015 at 9:04:50 am
Last Edited By Aaron Star on Oct 9, 2015 at 9:22:07 am

Select the 1080-24p profile, customize it to be 30P, and save it as 30p profile.

You do not want xdcam.MP4, you want to use a profile under Sony MXF > xdcam-ex. Change the 24P profile to be 30p (29.97)


Can't help much with the Mac side of things, if that post looks complex. You could just edit everything on one or the other.


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Diane Sosnoski
Re: Problems rendering
on Oct 9, 2015 at 10:18:59 pm

Hi Aaron,
The only choices I have in the Sony MXF(mxf) format drop down list are:
HD EX 1920X1080-60i
HD422 1920X1080-60i 50Mbps

I used the first one,(HD EX 1920X1080-60i)changed the 60i to 30p and was able to upload that to You Tube. Progress!

I'm curious as to why I don't get the same render choices you mention. Is my initial project template correct?
HD 1080-60i (1920X1080,29.970 fps)

Also, when you say to "take your clips, and render them to a 1080-30p-XDCAM-EX.MFX profile. Then edit the xdcam clips...and render your media to the same XDCAM profile.

Why is it necessary to render the clips twice? I've always done all my editing on the original clips in their native format and then rendered the final project.

Thanks,
Diane



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Aaron Star
Re: Problems rendering
on Oct 10, 2015 at 2:07:34 am
Last Edited By Aaron Star on Oct 10, 2015 at 2:19:04 am

I am not clear on what you are not seeing? Can you post screen shots?



Editing with an intermediate format in .MXF will perform better on the timeline and be more stable. There are performance optimizations in vegas for XAVC-Intra, HDCAM, and XDCAM 422/EX. Using source formats like .MP4, .MTS, and .MOV do not function as well on the timeline, and in some instances have bad limits on the amount of events you can have on a timeline. This optimization improves the amount of FX you can run without dropping FPS, and render times.

You can test this yourself by rendering test clips in the above formats, then dropping them on a timeline. When you scrub the clips with the cursor, you should see smooth fast animation, and no "..." after the frame counter in the preview window. Obviously do this in Best/Full preview. If you are seeing a series of still images, then that is not what you should be seeing. Still images means the system working hard to keep up with what you are asking for, and it can only show a few frames at a time.

You can setup another test with a couple clips dissolving with an FX applied. Then compare the frame rate in Best/Full. If you system is really fast, you may need to set the project settings to 32-bit FP Video Levels to increase the complexity of the playback. You could also just add more FX to the clips. Optimized formats will maintain playback speed or playback with higher frame rates.

Vegas is very accommodating and will work with whatever formats you throw at it, and not really complain. NLEs like AVID, FCP, or Resolve will ask you at certain points to optimize footage. Which at that time they convert media to an intermediate format they prefer.


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Diane Sosnoski
Re: Problems rendering
on Oct 12, 2015 at 1:55:22 am

Hi Aaron,

Here's screenshots of my choices. I have Vegas 11
Sorry for the poor quality. What do you think of these numbers?





I don't use special effects. I create fairly simple titles, basic cuts, dissolves, some slo-mo and maybe color correct. For that kind of editing do you still think its better to double render?


Thanks,
Diane



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Aaron Star
Re: Problems rendering
on Oct 12, 2015 at 5:07:42 am

If your workflow works for you, why change?

If your source media is .MTS format or from standard consumer cameras /DSLR, you do not need the 32-bit FP video level setting in your project setup. Unless there is a specific reason you feel you need it. That setting will just slow down your renders. 32-FP mode is designed to work with 10-bit or greater video formats. Most consumer cameras, even 4K cameras, are 8-bit video sources.


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