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Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.

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Kyle Le
Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 11, 2015 at 3:02:22 am

Hi. I'm currently on an i7 Lenovo y50 laptop with 8 gb of ram about 20 GB of space on my C disk and 300GB of ram on a D disk where all my video files are. I edit clips after running them through CREATE PROXY FILES and they load and preview just fine. However, when I split the clips and then cut them from the timeline, it takes upwards between 5 to 10 seconds for them to disappear. When I edited using Sony's .MTS file format or .wmv they would cut instantly.
any ideas on what I can do besides converting my files?


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Kyle Le
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 11, 2015 at 3:41:56 am

i also want to add that if i put the whole clip onto the timeline and cut it completely then it disappears instantly. but if I split it and then trim it, it will then lag before it disappears. thanks


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Graham Bernard
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 11, 2015 at 4:50:26 am

[Kyle Le] "I'm currently on an i7 Lenovo y50 laptop with 8 gb of ram about 20 GB of space on my C disk and 300GB of ram on a D disk where all my video files are."
Please be consistent with your description: Which C drive? Which D Drive? And exactly what is available on each? I don't understand. However on the face of what I can understand you would "appear" to have very little space available.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Kyle Le
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 11, 2015 at 5:57:35 am

hi. sorry. let me explain. My disc is parted into 2. The Windows 8 C disc has 100GB of space with 30 GB of space free. This is where Sony Vegas program is installed. The other partion has 700 GB of space with 400 GB of space free where I keep all of my files to edit. Normal proxy editing is fine and smooth. splitting is great, it's just deleting or cutting the split clips lags a bit, but sometimes its perfectly fine. thanks


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Graham Bernard
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 11, 2015 at 6:27:32 am
Last Edited By Graham Bernard on Sep 11, 2015 at 6:29:28 am

Let me get this correct: your system and media files are on the same disc, albeit partitioned? Yes? Firstly I don't do this, and secondly, and until someone contradicts me, the lagging is therefore understandable. I have my system and media on separate drives.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Kyle Le
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 12, 2015 at 5:21:49 am

should i reinstall sony vegas on the same partion as my media files? would that help the lag? would getting an SSD help?


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Graham Bernard
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 12, 2015 at 5:59:45 am

[Kyle Le] "should i reinstall sony vegas on the same partion as my media files? would that help the lag?"
You could try, I wouldn't know.

[Kyle Le] "would getting an SSD help?"
I've never had an SSD.

My solution would be to have my Media on a completely separate physical HD. Back in the day, I had an array of FireWire HDs feeding a dual PCMCIA F/W Card in the side of my Dell "Schlaptop". It worked. What I wouldn't do is have any feeding drive going through USB. Maybe the specs on USB3 are fast enough now. However, USB deals in packets of data, FireWire is a stream.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Kyle Le
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 12, 2015 at 1:07:57 pm

Can anyone confirm that if I reinstall Sony Vegas to my D drive with a bigger partition and also where the media files are, that this would help with my delete/cut lag time?

Right now Vegas is on my C Drive with 20gb of free space.
and my media files are on my partioned D drive with 400 gb of Free Space.

If I put the files on an external hard drive likea Toshiba Passport, would that make it faster?


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John Rofrano
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 12, 2015 at 2:40:25 pm

[Kyle Le] "Can anyone confirm that if I reinstall Sony Vegas to my D drive with a bigger partition and also where the media files are, that this would help with my delete/cut lag time?"
I can confirm that it will do nothing for you.

What Graham is trying to explain is the reason that people recommend that you place applications on a C: drive and video/data on your D: drive is reduce head contention. This requires using 2 physical disks. What you have done is partitioned a single disk so your C: drive and D: drive are using the same physical drive heads. It is as if you had only one big C: drive and, in fact, there is no reason for you to have a D: drive because you are gaining no benefit from it because it resides on the same physical disk as the C: drive.
[Kyle Le] "If I put the files on an external hard drive likea Toshiba Passport, would that make it faster?"
That depends if your internal drives are 5400 RPM or 7200 RPM and if the external drive is 7200 RPM? As long as it is a USB 3.0 drive and you have a USB 3.0 port this may be a simple test to run. An external 7200 RPM drive will perform faster than an internal 5400 RPM drive. I do all of my video editing on my MacBook Pro laptop from 1TB WD MyPassport USB 3.0 drives and I have no problems editing my AVCHD videos natively.

The bigger question is what file format are you editing? i.e., why are you making proxies on a Core i7 laptop like yours?

BTW, my MacBook Pro has an internal 1TB SSD which is scary fast (517 MB/s Read 490 MB/s Write) so if you bought an SSD for your laptop, you would not have any disk throughput problems if, in fact, that is your problem to begin with.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Graham Bernard
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 12, 2015 at 2:52:50 pm

John, thanks for adding the detail. Much appreciated!

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Kyle Le
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 12, 2015 at 10:36:18 pm

Thank you. that is very helpful.

I am editing with the new mp4 codec H.265 and with 4K content.

If getting an SSD is not an option right now,
you would recommend getting an external hard drive that is USB 3.0 and has a write speed of at least 7200?

btw, how do i find the write speeds of my current hard disk and external usb hard drives? thanks


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Aaron Star
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 13, 2015 at 12:43:15 am

SSD and external media are all good ideas for different reasons. The lagging of the system sounds more software related than disk hardware related.

I would try encoding a couple clips from the camera master mp4/H265 format to Sony XAVC-intra. Then create a new Vegas project with only the XAVC-I converted files on the timeline. Then see if Vegas still hangs when attempting your edit. Vegas does not support mp4 with H265 natively, and so the add-on that is allowing you to work that way maybe cause the glitch.

When you attempt the edit and the system hangs, do you see little ... building next to the frame counter below the preview window?


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Kyle Le
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 13, 2015 at 5:06:34 am
Last Edited By Kyle Le on Sep 13, 2015 at 9:21:21 am

the system is fine when i edit, splitting and everything. the previews are smooth when it comes files that have been proxied using sony's software. However, i can't browse the net or anything with sony vegas opened and the only lag i have is when I split a clip and then delete it or cut it. I want to be able to get in there and have it deleted instantly. But after the 5th or 6th clip it just lags for 5 seconds or more and then it's gone.

the sony format is whats lagging. sony's .mts files do not lag at all.

So i think the most cost affective thing for me is to get a separate external hard drive thats 7200rpms and USB 3.0?

Now, I should have USB 3.0 on my Lenovo y50 laptop, and I have several external Toshiba Passport harddrives that are 5400 RPMS, and they copy files over at around 60 to 80 mpbs. Is that normal?
I have an older WD external harddrive with USB 2.0 and it copies files over at 30 mbps. When I copy files from one USB 3 drive to another I get speeds of upwards of 100 mbps. I have 16 gbs of Ram installed, but they are a couple of years old. The computer came stock with a single 8 GB piece, but I haven't been able to locate the exact same kind to buy locally here, so I opted to use a friend's ram. I've noticed definite faster music and video load times, but i dont know if this ram can affect the transfer speeeds or if these speeds sound normal to you. thanks


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John Rofrano
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 13, 2015 at 2:57:38 pm

[Kyle Le] " However, i can't browse the net or anything with sony vegas opened and the only lag i have is when I split a clip and then delete it or cut it. I want to be able to get in there and have it deleted instantly. But after the 5th or 6th clip it just lags for 5 seconds or more and then it's gone."
Hmmm... that doesn't sound like disk a throughput issue. There should very little disk i/o to cut a section out of the timeline.
[Kyle Le] "the sony format is whats lagging. sony's .mts files do not lag at all. "
Which Sony format are you referring to?
[Kyle Le] "Now, I should have USB 3.0 on my Lenovo y50 laptop, and I have several external Toshiba Passport harddrives that are 5400 RPMS, and they copy files over at around 60 to 80 mpbs. Is that normal?"
Yea, 80MB/s is about the top end for a 5400 RPM external USB drive. I posted some screen shots of my Speed Disk test on a similar drive.
[Kyle Le] "I have an older WD external harddrive with USB 2.0 and it copies files over at 30 mbps."
That's consistent with USB 3.0 being about 3x faster than USB 2.0 at file copying.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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John Rofrano
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 13, 2015 at 2:44:25 pm

[Kyle Le] "I am editing with the new mp4 codec H.265 and with 4K content. "
I'm not working with 4K so I don't know how a single external USB 3.0 drive @ 7200 RPM will perform. I'm work with HD which is significantly less bandwidth. So while you can try using an external drive, I don't know how well it will work with 4K media.
[Kyle Le] "btw, how do i find the write speeds of my current hard disk and external usb hard drives? thanks"
I use the BlackMagic Designs Disk Speed Test on my Mac. It's a free download from the Apple App Store. There is a PC version but it's bundled with their driver software so you need to download one of their drivers and unzip it to find the speed test exe inside.

This is the speed test for my G|Drive Mobile USB drive @ 5400 RPM connected via USB 3.0:



This the speed test from the internal SSD on my MacBook Pro:



As you can see, SSD's have quite a lot more throughput. I don't have a 7200 RPM USB 3.0 with me to test bt it should perform better than the 5400 RPM drive above.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Kyle Le
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 13, 2015 at 4:01:25 pm

You have been very helpful. Thank you so much.
I wasn't able to go out and buy a 7200 hard drive today
but as an experiment I put some files over on my 5400 external drive
and the lag when I cut/delete clips are almost gone. At least, they disappear way faster than before. but after a few clips there will be some lag as well. So that might have solved my problems for now, I'll buy a 7200 rpm hard drive and test it out later, but I have a lot of hope.

Thank you again. Ive been editing videos for years and never knew I should have used another drive for media.

The sony codec I was refering to is the .MTS files that came out of my sony rx100. Which was so easy to edit on my current laptop setup. no lags whatsoever - no need to create proxies.

My current camera is a samsung nx500 which only captures in .mp4 format that needs to be converted to another .mp4 codec hv 264 so that sony vegas can read it. These files are so compressed that I need to create proxies to edit them.
And even with the sony proxy, there's more lag.

Thank you again. I will buy the new external harddrive tomorrow. Looking to get a Lacie Porsche desk top version.


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John Rofrano
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 13, 2015 at 7:34:30 pm

I'm glad to see that even the 5400 RPM hard drive is providing some relief. The 7200 RPM should give you about 120MB/s which should give an extra boost over the 80MB/s of a 5400 RPM drive. I hope that fixes the problem entirely for you.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Aaron Star
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 14, 2015 at 3:51:54 am
Last Edited By Aaron Star on Sep 14, 2015 at 3:55:14 am

You could determine what the hold up is when deleting clips with Promon, but this might be to in depth for average user.

There is another post on SV forum on a process to allows Vegas to edit the HEVC files directly in the Vegas timeline. I thought this is what you were doing when I first read this. If you are converting your HEVC files with some camera sidekick app, I would try the solution below. Then when Vegas can read the HEVC files, convert them to XAVC-i.MXF. It could be that your camera app is not creating compliant MP4 renders.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/showmessage.asp?messageid=931639

.MTS HD is not a good edit format, converting to HDCAM-SR-lite.mfx, or XDCAM-ex/422.mxf, would edit smoother and take better advantage of system hardware.

HEVC ironically needs to be converted to XAVC, even though HDCAM SStP is 4K capable just not included in Vegas. I say convert the HEVC to XAVC because even though Vegas will read the HEVC format, editing with it slow and chunky.

Word to the wise. Steer clear of Lacie drives. Lacie has attractive designs with crap hardware interface chips, and their designs do not deal with heat well. The heat kills the drives prematurely, or the chips fry from the HDD heat build up. After loosing 2 LaCie external drives, and one during a production, they made the S-List. Luckily the drive that failed during production was the adapter chip that blew, and HHD internal was ok when connected directly as an internal PC drive.


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John Rofrano
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 14, 2015 at 12:16:11 pm

[Aaron Star] "Word to the wise. Steer clear of Lacie drives. "
+1

I was going to say the same thing. Lacie makes horrible drives. I would not use them.

I use G-Tech G|Drives but they are formatted for the Mac. You would have to reformat them for a PC but that's not a big deal. WD Passport drives are reliable too but Western Digital doesn't list which drives have 5400 RPM or 7200 RPM disks in them. G-Technology sells both and lists this in the specs.

G-Technology 1TB G-DRIVE mobile USB Portable Hard Drive (7200 RPM)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Kyle Le
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 16, 2015 at 2:38:02 pm

i bought a WD harddrive and put it in anexternal box.

here's what i've noticed... in other file formats, it's blazing fast and deletes instantly.

But in the file format that I've been struggling with, it still lags, therefore I believe that it must be because of that codec even at 1080 HD

My camera records video at the new h.265 codec, which sony vegas can not edit. This file format is so compressed and awesome for the memory cards I have to convert it to the h.264 codec, which is a nightmare to edit even with my new 7200rpm 64mb cache drive. in the preview screen it won't play normally and lags so I have to use sony vegas's create a proxy feature. This helps the lag in the preview, but the cutting is still slow.
Now, don't get me wrong, it's a lot faster than what happened before, but it's still not instant like the other mp4 and other formats. Instead of 5-10 seconds for it to delete, it now takes 1 second to 2 seconds, but it's still noticeable.

Any ideas on what I can possible do besides create proxies outside of Sony Vegas? It's a little bit troubling to me to have to convert two times and most free programs out there can not convert 60 frames per second.

thank you.


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John Rofrano
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 17, 2015 at 11:59:28 am

I'm glad it helped a bit but it sounds like you've taken it as far as you can unless you get an SSD which would be 5x faster still.

Have you tried converting to Sony XAVC Intra? This should edit smoothly in Vegas Pro as long as the rest of your computer is up for spec for 4K.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Kyle Le
Re: Cutting a clip from the timeline and lagging.
on Sep 14, 2015 at 5:41:38 pm
Last Edited By Kyle Le on Sep 14, 2015 at 5:43:26 pm

thank you.

I live in Vietnam, so computer options are limited.
I will try to find a WD my book or something tomorrow, but it's very difficult.


on a separate issue, I have a tablet that has a usb 3 on it, unfortunately it has very low capacity, so when I'm traveling, I like to bring a hard drive with me. This tablet only has one USB drive, so i need to get a hub. I've used a USB 2.0 on it before and all it did was lag and the disk would click signaling not enough power.
Should I upgrade to a USB 3.0 hub with a wall plug in unit?


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