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Rendering PNG

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Neil Hynes
Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 12:04:54 am

Hi guys,

I was hoping maybe someone here can shed some light on this. Im using Sony Vegas 12 and I am having a problem with a PNG file when it is rendered to .MPEG2 . Basically its text over picture and the text was created in photoshop, saved as a transparent PNG and imported into Vegas over the video. No probelms there and it plays perfectly but when I render it the results are that the image is perfect but the PNG reproduction is squished and altered looking nothing like what it was. Its scrolling as it should but its out of shape. Also, the same happens at auto preview and is only corrected at Best preview. When I render in MP4 format there are no issues at all. Am i missing somehting here ?

Any feedback greatly appreciated!


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Graham Bernard
Re: ndering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 2:31:02 am

From your description it sounds like the Pixel Aspect Ratio (PAR) of the final render is affecting the Text. Please confirm here the PAR of your PNG, your Video and your Render Template.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Neil Hynes
Re: ndering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 3:05:30 am

Thanks for your reply Graham. Ill be back at the computer in a while and Ill get that info for you. Neil


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Graham Bernard
Re: ndering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 5:06:50 am

Neil, I've prepared this for you.

Viewed in VLC Player:



Viewed from within VP13:



If I alter ANY of the PAR values at ANY part of the Workflow I can squish the IMPORTED (post PSP Graphic Editor) PNG 1:1 PAR.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Neil Hynes
Re: ndering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 12:37:19 pm

Thnaks Graham. I have uploade my results too. So are you saying that importing 1:1 is ok but if you change the dimesions it squishes ?


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Bob Peterson
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 3:02:44 am

What are the dimensions of the png file, and what are the dimensions of the rendered file? For example, if the mpeg2 file is 720 x 480, the png file must be 655 x 480. This is due to a difference in pixel shape for a png image.


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Neil Hynes
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 3:08:15 am

Thanks for replying Bob, thats interesting. But what about the way i wish to compose the text on screen and its positioniong etc and when does the pixel aspect ratio come into effect; at the saving stage in photoshop or crop tool in vegas ? Ill be back at the computer in a wee bit and Ill even post a pic :)


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Bob Peterson
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 3:59:28 pm
Last Edited By Bob Peterson on Jul 4, 2015 at 4:02:51 pm

For a 720 x 480, which was my example, the png width should be any multiple of 655. The length can be as large as you want it to be. Then, as John pointed out, in pan/crop you set it to match the output aspect. It will then not be distorted when it is displayed. The factor which tells you what the png width should be is the pixel aspect ratio. For a 720x480 NTSC image that ratio is .909, so .909 times 720 gives you a width of 655. You simply have to determine what the aspect ratio is for the video file you will be rendering.

The reason for this is that pngs use square pixels which are a bit larger than the pixels used in video. Thus, the image is a bit wider for the same number of pixels.


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 5:51:34 pm

[Bob Peterson] "The factor which tells you what the png width should be is the pixel aspect ratio. For a 720x480 NTSC image that ratio is .909, so .909 times 720 gives you a width of 655."
It's important to note that Neil is working with PAL SD Widescreen which has a Pixel Aspect Ratio (PAR) of 1.4568 so his PNG's would need to be 1049 x 576 if his project was PAL SD Widescreen.

It's also important to note that PAL SD Widescreen has a 1:82:1 aspect ratio while HD is 1.77:1 so PAL SD Widescreen is actually wider than HD 16:9. So something will need to be either cropped or stretched to satisfy both formats.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Bob Peterson
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 10:13:55 pm

Good points. That is why I was stressing that he needs to use the aspect ratio of the format that he is rendering to. I did not want to leave the impression that everything has the same pixel aspect ratio. I did want to suggest that, once you figure out and confirm what you need in Photoshop to match the pixel aspect ratio for the desired render format, things become a LOT simpler.


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Neil Hynes
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 12:34:38 pm



The PNG is 3105.8 by 1,747 in Vegas. Its properties read it as a still of 2480 by 7016 by 32.



End result:


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Neil Hynes
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 12:36:28 pm

So are you guys sayingI have to import the PNG 1:1 and I cannot adjust it if I want to maintain its values and dimensions for an mpeg ?


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 1:16:04 pm

[Neil Hynes] "The PNG is 3105.8 by 1,747 in Vegas. Its properties read it as a still of 2480 by 7016 by 32. "
If your project is 1920x1080, In your image editor (photoshop?) I would make the PNG file 1920 by however long you need it to be to scroll. You need to prepare your assets properly to fit your project. This should solve your problem because Vegas Pro won't need to scale it at all.

You are actually causing the problem because you didn't prepare your image correctly. I see that you want more space on the sides so you are doing this in Vegas Pro by stretching the crop (I can tell because the "F" in the crop is distorted!). You need to do all of this in your image editor. if you want more space on the sides, save the PNG with more space on the sides. The width should be 1920 so it drops into your project without any adjusting. Then all you need to do is animate to scroll down.

If you want to possibly fix this with the existing image, open Pan/Crop and right-click on the frame and select Match Output Aspect. This will resize the crop to match 1920x1080. Then don't stretch the crop!!! You can resize it to make it bigger or smaller but DO NOT change the aspect by stretching!

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Neil Hynes
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 1:46:27 pm

Thank you John. I understand what you are saying. Basically, import my image with the correct dimensions created in Photoshop in the 1st place avoiding adjustments/distortions in the program. So that means go back to Photoshop and re-work the file with the 1920 width and however long I need it, and with the spacing I like, and then bring it into Vegas where Ill only need to Key-Frame the scroll. Simplified, thanks!

I see now that the error was in my preparation. Quick question though; why does this only become corrupted when I rendered in PAL SD MPEG2 and seems fine in 1920 BY 1080 MP4 Is it becasue there are too many pixels to deal with for PAL SD render ?

Again, learning as I go thanks to you guys.


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 2:00:21 pm

[Neil Hynes] "I understand what you are saying. Basically, import my image with the correct dimensions created in Photoshop in the 1st place avoiding adjustments/distortions in the program. So that means go back to Photoshop and re-work the file with the 1920 width and however long I need it, and with the spacing I like, and then bring it into Vegas where Ill only need to Key-Frame the scroll. Simplified, thanks!"
Exactly! you got it.
[Neil Hynes] "Quick question though; why does this only become corrupted when I rendered in PAL SD MPEG2 and seems fine in 1920 BY 1080 MP4 Is it becasue there are too many pixels to deal with for PAL SD render ? "
I'm guessing it's because PAL doesn't use square pixels and when Vegas resizes it does the calculation wrong because your aspect ratio was distorted by the crop. The trick is to keep the aspect ratio the same or better yet, not have Vegas resize in the first place. Then everything will fall into place.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Neil Hynes
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 5:52:47 pm

Thanks again guys and thanks John for the file prep advice; couldnt have said it better.


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 5:56:26 pm

You're welcome Neil. I'm glad we could help.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Neil Hynes
Re: Rendering PNG
on Jul 4, 2015 at 12:42:27 pm

Bob
rendered file is Pal 720 by 576 I have uploaded my render settings


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