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Sony Vegas Pro 12, visable difference between ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD

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Michael Gibrall
Sony Vegas Pro 12, visable difference between ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD
on Jun 28, 2015 at 1:41:46 pm

Hello all.

I have a film that has been rendered on my PC, Windows 7, Sony Vegas Pro 12 in DNxHD using the settings recommended by John Rofrano.

I took an uncompressed quicktime version of the film and had it rendered to ProRes 422 HQ on a Mac.

A couple of questions.

The file size of my 80 minute film are:
DNxHD = 65.3 GB
ProRes422 HQ = 94.9 GB

The footage was shot on Canon DSLR's (5D Mark III, Mark II, and T3i)which record at 420. Is the file size difference from the ProRes 422 because, perhaps, the settings for the DNxHD are more for 420, where 422 is a little overkill?

Second, when looking at the video on the PC (I can't answer how it looks on the Mac, I was allowed to borrow it to make the render and that's it) there is a visible difference in the render. The pic below shows the two renders on the Sony Vegas 12 timeline, with all of the scopes shown as well, to see the differences.

The top image is ProRes422HQ, the bottom image is DNxHD. The chroma appears to be the same between the two, but the base levels (setup) on the waveform and the RGB Parade are higher, and there's a difference in the histogram.

The ProRes 422HQ version looks a little washed out.

I've read of similar problems when rendering in Pro Res 422HQ.

I have quicktime on my pc (not pro, just the standard version)

Is this a codec issue where I need to change a setting? I don't believe I can make alterations on the free quicktime version.

I rendered in Sony Vegas Pro 12 a small clip from the ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD versions of the film on mp4, and played them back on the PC. The render of the ProRes 422 HQ file on mp4 also looked a little washed out.

I may be about to sign a distribution deal for the film. The company wants ProRes 422HQ as it's master. I'm wondering if I have a 'bad' render in ProRes 422HQ and I need to do it again, or is this something that will be fine when editing/rendering in FCP?

Thanks in advance.





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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas Pro 12, visable difference between ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD
on Jun 28, 2015 at 4:09:48 pm

[Michael Gibrall] "The footage was shot on Canon DSLR's (5D Mark III, Mark II, and T3i)which record at 420. Is the file size difference from the ProRes 422 because, perhaps, the settings for the DNxHD are more for 420, where 422 is a little overkill?"
File size is controlled by bit rate. The bit rate must be higher for the ProRes 422 HQ file than the DNxHD file.
[Michael Gibrall] "The ProRes 422HQ version looks a little washed out."
The reason is that the Mac's default gamma setting of 1.8 is different from that of Windows 2.2. This is an age old problem.
[Michael Gibrall] "I may be about to sign a distribution deal for the film. The company wants ProRes 422HQ as it's master. I'm wondering if I have a 'bad' render in ProRes 422HQ and I need to do it again, or is this something that will be fine when editing/rendering in FCP?"
I believe this is a Windows QuickTime problem which doesn't present itself you you stayed with a Mac. How does the ProRes 422HQ file look on a Mac? That's all that matters since the company you are giving it to is obviously not using Windows and is going to work with these files on a Mac (i.e., it doesn't mater what they look like on Windows)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Michael Gibrall
Re: Sony Vegas Pro 12, visable difference between ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD
on Jun 28, 2015 at 5:28:35 pm

Thank you, John. I'm going to call a friend that has a Mac and play the file back there. If the problem still exits, I'll follow up.


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas Pro 12, visable difference between ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD
on Jun 28, 2015 at 6:10:03 pm

[Michael Gibrall] "I took an uncompressed quicktime version of the film and had it rendered to ProRes 422 HQ on a Mac."
I just reread your post and wanted to point out that the beauty of Avid DNxHD is that it doesn't suffer from the gamma problem between PC and Mac. What you want to do is transfer the DNxHD file to the Mac and convert it to ProRes 422HQ. Then check that the PreRes version and the DNxHD version look the same on the Mac. That is the real test.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Michael Gibrall
Re: Sony Vegas Pro 12, visable difference between ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD
on Jun 29, 2015 at 1:00:20 am

[John Rofrano] "I just reread your post and wanted to point out that the beauty of Avid DNxHD is that it doesn't suffer from the gamma problem between PC and Mac. What you want to do is transfer the DNxHD file to the Mac and convert it to ProRes 422HQ. Then check that the PreRes version and the DNxHD version look the same on the Mac. That is the real test."

The reason I made an uncompressed quicktime film of the film (using your instructions on how to do so, BTW, and thank you) is because, while DNxHD is supposed to be a great format, going uncompressed as my source file with zero quality loss would preserve the best possible quality on the conversion, even if you may not notice it after a prores conversion of the DNcHD file.

I'm going to see about your first suggestion by playing back the prores 422 hq file on a mac before I proceed, but if I have to make a new file in the end, I guess I could go with the DNxHD as a source.

Thanks again.


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Jonathan Thomas
Re: Sony Vegas Pro 12, visable difference between ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD
on Jul 1, 2015 at 6:21:22 am

I’d found a better way. Quicktime Avid DNxHD was my old workflow. I could say… I’m in the same boat that you are in. Except, I’m now rendering to Sony 422 MXF. This is on my iMAC.
Once you render that MXF file. You can import into Compressor or Sony Catalyst on a Mac.
And transcode to ProRes 422 HQ. This way you don’t lose any quality.

Both programs can adjust color correction if need be. Sony Catalyst is the free program. Apple Compressor is $99.


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas Pro 12, visable difference between ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD
on Jul 1, 2015 at 1:27:50 pm

[Jonathan Thomas] "Except, I’m now rendering to Sony 422 MXF. This is on my iMAC."
I don't see how this helps Michael. He is starting out in Vegas Pro on his PC. Avid DNxHD is less lossy than Sony 422 MXF so I don't see how this is better. Also Sony MXF may suffer the gamma shift problem. As I said, Avid DNxHD is the only codec I know of that solves this problem.
[Jonathan Thomas] "Apple Compressor is $99."
Apple Compressor 4 is only $49.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Michael Gibrall
Re: Sony Vegas Pro 12, visable difference between ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD
on Jul 1, 2015 at 2:13:30 pm

John:

I played back the ProRes 422 HQ file on a Mac this morning. It looked great!

So now I know the file is just fine, it's just playback on a PC.

Thanks for your help!


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas Pro 12, visable difference between ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD
on Jul 4, 2015 at 2:41:17 pm

[Michael Gibrall] "So now I know the file is just fine, it's just playback on a PC."
Yea, so what you're dealing with is a problem with the Windows version of Quicktime not using the proper gamma on a PC. There's really nothing you can do about it.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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