FORUMS: list search recent posts

"Smart Rendering" question.

COW Forums : VEGAS Pro

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Bruce Richard
"Smart Rendering" question.
on May 9, 2015 at 2:50:41 pm

I recently bought a Hauppauge Colussus video capture card for the purpose of capturing some videos off of my HDDVR (DirecTv Genie) and archiving them. I use the capture card software that produces a .ts file. Vegas won't import a .ts file, so I use Arcsoft ShowBiz which converts it to .m2ts, (AVCHD) which Vegas has no issues with. I'm using Vegas to edit out portions of the files. No color adjustments or other alterations, just cutting out the commercials.

My question comes in on the rendering. since all I did was some cutting out of the commercials, I had hoped to do a (hopefully) lossless "smart render". I went into Vegas's render options, selected Sony AVC/MVC format, which was the only one that included the m2ts format, and it offered 3 options that had the "=" sign next to them, which signifies that it would "Match project settings" which I took as probably the best options for a smart render. They were:

AVCHD 1920x1080-60i,
Blu-ray 1920x1080-60i, 16 Mbps video stream,
Blu-ray 1920x1080-60i, 10 Mbps video stream.

I tried all 3, hoping for the "smart rendering" text to show up in my preview window, but it did not. I selected the "AVCHD 1920x1080-60i" setting and it took what I think was an extraordinarily long time to render. What am I doing wrong? Here are the media info's of the original, and the rendered file. You will see there are some differences, which I circled. It seems to have changed a number of factors, and also notice it down converted my audio from 6 channels to 2.



Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 9, 2015 at 5:10:36 pm

[Bruce Richard] "I use Arcsoft ShowBiz which converts it to .m2ts, (AVCHD) "
Vegas Pro can smart render the following formats:
  • DV AVI
  • DV MXF
  • IMX MXF (IMX 24p MXF is not supported for no-recompress rendering)
  • XAVC Intra MXF
  • HD MXF
  • MPEG-2 (for files such as those from HDV and DVD camcorders)
  • Panasonic P2
  • XDCAM EX supports smart rendering across the following formats:
    • SP 18.3 Mbps CBR 1280x720p to/from XDCAM EX and HDV HD-1
    • SP 25 Mbps CBR 1440x1080i to/from XDCAM EX, XDCAM HD, and HDV HD-2
    • HQ 35 Mbps VBR 1440x1080 to/from XDCAM EX and XDCAM HD
    • HQ 35 Mbps VBR 1280x720p to/from XDCAM EX
    • HQ 35 Mbps VBR 1920x1080 to/from XDCAM EX
You'll notice the AVCHD m2ts is NOT in the list.

In order to perform smart rendering, the width, height, frame rate, field order, profile, level, and bit rate of the source media, project settings, and rendering template must match. Frames that have effects, compositing, or transitions applied will be rendered.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Wayne Waag
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 9, 2015 at 5:33:31 pm

You need something like this.

http://www.videoredo.com/en/Products_TVSuite_V5.html

I have an older Hauppauge PVR that I capture from DirecTV. Works very well and also very fast--i.e. it smart-renders. TMPGEnc also makes a product (TMPGEnc Smart Renderer 4) that also works well. Having both, I prefer VideoRedo. I believe they both have a free trial.

wwaag


Return to posts index


Bruce Richard
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 10, 2015 at 7:02:38 am

[Wayne Waag] "You need something like this.

http://www.videoredo.com/en/Products_TVSuite_V5.html

I have an older Hauppauge PVR that I capture from DirecTV. Works very well and also very fast--i.e. it smart-renders. TMPGEnc also makes a product (TMPGEnc Smart Renderer 4) that also works well. Having both, I prefer VideoRedo. I believe they both have a free trial.

wwaag"


Yes, it looks like this may end up being the way I need to go, even though I was hoping to get by with what I already have. Thank you for the reply.


Return to posts index

Bruce Richard
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 10, 2015 at 6:54:04 am
Last Edited By Bruce Richard on May 10, 2015 at 7:09:17 am

[John Rofrano] "You'll notice the AVCHD m2ts is NOT in the list.

In order to perform smart rendering, the width, height, frame rate, field order, profile, level, and bit rate of the source media, project settings, and rendering template must match. Frames that have effects, compositing, or transitions applied will be rendered.

~jr"


Ok, and thank you for pointing that out for me. Vegas does so much, and I only understand probably singe digits of it percentage wise.

A couple follow on questions.

Is there something I could have done to keep the AC3 audio? Did I miss something selected in the second level Vegas preferences or something? Or would selecting one of the other "=" rendering formats (The Blu-Ray options listed above) have solved that?

Lastly, my ultimate goal is to get these programs off of my DVR and onto Bluray in the highest quality reasonably possible. Would what I am doing (Hauppauge capture to a .ts file, then ShowBiz conversion to m2ts, then selecting the best option in Vegas,) going to get me there? I really like Vegas, and want to maximize my investment in it. (But I don't want to do circus tricks to do it if other reasonable options exist)


Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 10, 2015 at 1:17:01 pm

[Bruce Richard] "Is there something I could have done to keep the AC3 audio? Did I miss something selected in the second level Vegas preferences or something? Or would selecting one of the other "=" rendering formats (The Blu-Ray options listed above) have solved that? "
The only thing you could do is not use Vegas Pro for this task. AC3 is a delivery format. Vegas cannot edit it. You need an editor that can just cut whatever you want out of those clips and assemble the rest without rendering.
[Bruce Richard] "Lastly, my ultimate goal is to get these programs off of my DVR and onto Bluray in the highest quality reasonably possible. Would what I am doing (Hauppauge capture to a .ts file, then ShowBiz conversion to m2ts, then selecting the best option in Vegas,) going to get me there?"
If all you want is to put these on BlueRay, then feed the .TS files directly into tsMuxeR and output to Blu-ray ISO. There will be no rendering as tsMuxeR will simply remux the video and audio into a Blu-ray container. It should only take a few minutes and you just burn the resulting ISO file onto a Blu-ray disc and you're done. (BTW, the 'ts' in tsMuxer standards for Transport Stream which is what your .TS files are so this tool is specifically designed fro what you are doing)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index


Bruce Richard
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 10, 2015 at 6:44:08 pm

[John Rofrano] "If all you want is to put these on BlueRay, then feed the .TS files directly into tsMuxeR and output to Blu-ray ISO. There will be no rendering as tsMuxeR will simply remux the video and audio into a Blu-ray container. It should only take a few minutes and you just burn the resulting ISO file onto a Blu-ray disc and you're done. (BTW, the 'ts' in tsMuxer standards for Transport Stream which is what your .TS files are so this tool is specifically designed fro what you are doing)"

The reason I went through the other steps was to get the file into a program (in my case, Vegas) that I could edit out portions of it with. I took a quick look at tsMuxeR and it doesn't appear to have the ability to do that, am I correct in that assumption?

And again, thank you, you're really being helpful.


Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 10, 2015 at 7:39:17 pm

[Bruce Richard] "I took a quick look at tsMuxeR and it doesn't appear to have the ability to do that, am I correct in that assumption?"
Yes, you are correct, tsMuxeR it's not an editor. It does have the ability to split and cut video but it doesn't give you a preview windows so it's next to impossible to use it for real-time editing.

It sounds like VideoReDo might be your best choice.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Wayne Waag
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 10, 2015 at 8:21:47 pm

It sounds like VideoReDo might be your best choice.

I forgot to mention it, but VRD does have a feature called "ad-detective" which searches for suspected ads to assist in their removal, but quite frankly, I've never used it. I believe that the TMPGEnc product also has that feature.

wwaag


Return to posts index


Jim Leonard
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 11, 2015 at 4:01:20 pm

Why can't we all just get along? .MPG, .MTS, .MP4, .OGG Where will it end? I just spent an hour trying to make Google "Like" my Mobile web pages... Now my Sony Blu-Ray doesn't like to play my 1080 24P video on my Sony 1080P TV that was produced on Sony Vegas. Do I need to buy Sony Electrify?

You might think, if everything is made by one manufacture, the "Smart Rendering" would already be built into the choices. Not So... I can pick "Blu-ray 1920X1080-60i, 16Mbps video stream" from Sony's video template for Burn Blu-ray Disk Menu that nooo-body can play.

And you don't know it will not play for 20 minutes while the software makes something that will not play. NOT-smart...

I shoot all the video on a Sony 1080p Cmos camera at 60fps and it looks great on my monitor. Sure wish others could see it (lol)

BTW: When I choose the above mentioned odd video template, the description box on the menu shows "Video: 29.970 fps, 1920x1080 Upper field first, YUV, 16 Mbps" which should work but it will now play.

I'm ready for something "Smart," Please...

Lenny - Production


Return to posts index

John Rofrano
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 12, 2015 at 3:12:59 am

If you use the Blu-ray templates and don't change them, they will produce a Blu-ray disc that plays in everyone's player. The trick is to not change them. Just use them as-is and they work right out-of-the-box.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Jim Leonard
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 12, 2015 at 9:19:10 pm

I tried 50i and 24p templates and the 50i would not play at all. The 24p blinked on and off every couple seconds. The software did not make 60 fps into 50 or 24 well. I wish I could find a program that would show the Metadata for a .ISO file so I could see what went wrong. The program should say "This isn't going to work, buddy," and save me 20 minutes.

Lenny - Production


Return to posts index


Wayne Waag
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 12, 2015 at 9:36:59 pm

You need to be more specific in terms of your source footage--frame size, frame rate, interlaced or progressive, etc. Also your project settings and what render templates you are using. From your last post, one could infer that you might be trying to convert from NTSC to PAL (60 to 50)?? In any case, you need to provide more information.

wwaag


Return to posts index

Jim Leonard
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 13, 2015 at 12:28:00 pm

You seem to infer "Smart Rendering" is the job of the end-user? It's not. Error trapping is the job of the programmer. If the software can't convert from NTSC to PAL, tell me up front by not giving me the option in the Menu. Don't make me wait 20 minutes. I have a life...

And if it's my responsibility to "Render Smartly," at least link me to some help doc that explains what I need to do to accomplish the task. Maybe I need to send a DVD to my buddy in Germany. Do you want me to send him a DVD player too?

BTW: The Sony .mts raw file was shot in Blu-ray mode -
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 123 MiB
Duration : 38s 966ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 26.6 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 28.0 Mbps

Video Meta:
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=15
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 39s 39ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 25.1 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 26.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.202
Stream size : 117 MiB (94%)

Lenny - Production


Return to posts index

Wayne Waag
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 13, 2015 at 3:25:44 pm

Jim,

You seem to have a basic misunderstanding about "smart-rendering". The OP for this thread wanted to know about simply cutting commercials from a recorded video without re-rendering the entire file. In simple terms, a "smart-render" renders only the changed parts of the video and copies the unchanged parts. In this way, generational loss is minimized. In the second post, John Rofrano lists the only formats that Vegas will smart-render.

Converting NTSC to PAL is a completely different kettle of fish that has nothing to do with smart-rendering. Perhaps you should start a new thread focused on this particular problem. Here is a link to a thread on the Vegas Pro forum that discusses such conversions.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&Messag...

Of interest is the claim that PAL blu-ray players will also play NTSC-formatted blu-rays. I have no idea, but if that's true, then keeping it at 60i would avoid conversion problems. Perhaps someone with experience in doing such conversions could comment. In any case, good luck.

wwaag


Return to posts index


John Rofrano
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 13, 2015 at 11:42:50 pm

I'm confused. It sounds like you are trying to make a PAL Blu-ray disc from NTSC 60p source. I would render your project to PAL HD 50i first using Sony AVC with the Blu-ray 1920x1080-50i, 16 Mbps video stream template and your audio as Dolby Digital AC3 and check to make sure that the video plays in a media player (it won't have audio but it should still play). Then use those two PAL streams to author your PAL Blu-ray disc with DVD Architect Pro.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

Jim Leonard
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 14, 2015 at 5:35:28 pm

[John Rofrano] "Then use those two PAL streams to author your PAL Blu-ray disc with DVD Architect Pro."

It's a plan. Sounds like you have been at this business about as long as I have, but you have Way more practice with Vegas than me. Problem solved. Thanks for the Help!

I've been poking at this nest to see if there where any Sony programmers here. I see this "Creative" Cow is more on the user side. I was hoping to get some changes made to Vegas. I guess this is not like MSDN.

Thanks All...

PS: I tried to get that "q" quote thing to work but I had to fake it. The "Read More" only talks about embedding IMG's. I may be new here but I can read ;-)

Lenny - Production


Return to posts index

Norman Black
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 14, 2015 at 5:50:25 pm

[Jim Leonard] "I've been poking at this nest to see if there where any Sony programmers here. I see this "Creative" Cow is more on the user side. I was hoping to get some changes made to Vegas"

To suggest feature addition/changes you should use the suggestion page.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/support/suggestions

SCS developers do read forum posts on the Sony forums, but they very rarely interact in threads.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/home

Hope to get some changes made... is frankly unrealistic. All you can do is get your vote(s) in on ideas, as one minnow in the pond, and hope enough other users are doing the same to get SCS management to consider an addition or possibly a change.


Return to posts index


John Rofrano
Re: "Smart Rendering" question.
on May 14, 2015 at 7:13:54 pm

Glad that fixed it for you. As Norman said, there is a Product Suggestion page where you can feedback to Sony.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]