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Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...

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Richard Moskowitz
Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:10:25 pm
Last Edited By Richard Moskowitz on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:39:16 pm

I have been putting together a home video from VHS to DVD for a neighbor. Everything works great, up until it's time to render. Video is perfectly in sync with audio while playing in preview, but upon rendering, it screws it up! I have scoured and applied countless fixes, suggestions, and options from this website(and many others). I have tried at least 11 different rendering options with and without matching the source video parameters with only one result, VEGAS IS VERY UNTRUSTWORTHY!! The d**n video still comes out with the audio out of sync by about 2-3 seconds!! My system hardware certainly exceeds what is deemed to be more than what's needed. Here is what my system hardware consists of:

AMD Phenom x4 3.1
WD 7200 500G
AMD HD 4650 GPU
5.1 Dig Sound


Here is the kicker that the vegas designers may want to deeply think about: I took the exact video that I imported into vegas and decided to import into windows live movie maker. I proceeded to make my cuts, add additional video, text, and music to my project. I was able to duplicate(almost precisely) in movie maker what I had done in vegas with the end result being a very nicely pieced and processed dvd! The video and audio were 100% perfectly in sync after the render! Kind of sad for sony I would say. I would certainly prefer to use vegas because of it being more versitale, but in this situation vegas is one big loser. I know there are many hardcore vegas fanatics, but it needs to be said about things can be deceiving(meaning movie maker's positive ability). So the burning question here is: Why was movie maker(little tikes)able to accomplish what vegas(nascar) couldn't?


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John Rofrano
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 18, 2015 at 2:33:42 am

Sorry to hear that you've had such an awful experience with Vegas Pro but I can tell you from personal experience from using Vegas Pro since 2002 doing VHS captures and creating DVD's that I have never had my audio go out of sync once in 13 years. I can't explain the behavior you are seeing but it I can assure you that it is unique to your computer. All the professionals on this forum who make their living using Vegas Pro would not be using it if this happened all the time.

How are you capturing your VHS tapes? What format are they digitized in? I use a Canopus ADVC-300 which has Time-Based Correction and creates DV AVI files. Like I said, I've never had sync problems with these files in Vegas Pro.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Graham Bernard
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 18, 2015 at 2:49:19 am

Whilst I agree with John's comments regarding the VHS to DVD experience, which mirrors my own, I'm having an issue trying to understand how, Richard, you're experiencing sync in Preview and not when prepared and burnt to DVD.

Interesting.

However, to challenge SONY over a design to output issue, where if this had been the case, there would have been such User consternation we would have heard it from the Rockies to the Alps and the gleaming shores of Australia. I'm not hearing it.

We definitely need more information from as to your workflow.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Steve Rhoden
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 18, 2015 at 11:55:19 am

We here are not fanatics Richard, we are professionals who tries to
assist others like you with your problem. Yes its unfortunate that you
had this issue with Vegas, but its not at least universal.

Unfortunately since you have tried so many options to fix this, i dont
know which direction to point you to, but i can confidently tell you
that something you have installed or configured, is causing you this
frustration with Vegas (If only i physically had your system, would be
an easy fix
)...

Steve Rhoden (Cow Leader)
Film Maker & VFX Artist.
Owner of Filmex Creative Media.
Samples of my Work and Company can be seen here:
http://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia


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Richard Moskowitz
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 18, 2015 at 2:14:09 pm

John: Thank you for you sympathy. Just to be clear, I'm not bashing Vegas. I want to use it over anything else.

Capturing- I use an Avermedia C027 Internal PCI-E ( http://www.avermedia-usa.com/avertv/product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=482 ) DVD/VCR player plugged directly into the internal card. Then I play and record from a vhs tape. Here are the settings for capturing and system specs:


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john bolton
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 18, 2015 at 12:58:28 pm

I see your specs are with 5.1 Dig sound..Are you rendering the Audio as 5.1 in Vegas or just standard stereo ?


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Richard Moskowitz
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 18, 2015 at 2:17:02 pm

Stereo, because that is how it was captured. I uploaded a few snipping photo's to show my details.


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Dave Osbun
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 18, 2015 at 7:33:01 pm
Last Edited By Dave Osbun on Feb 18, 2015 at 7:38:32 pm

My DVDs come out great. Don't fault the software.....

Many times crazy issues are caused by the smallest thing, thus easy to overlook.

If you have the time & ability, wipe the system drive clean with a reformat and reinstall Windows. Install Vegas and DVD Architect and NOTHING ELSE. Make your DVD and hopefully it comes out perfect.

If the DVD is good, reinstall the programs you need ONE AT A TIME, and make another exactly same DVD after each install.

You should be able to find the cause of your issue.

Dave


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Richard Moskowitz
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 18, 2015 at 10:46:45 pm

I certainly understand your rational, but why then would a baby steps program like live movie maker accomplish to perfection what solid professional program like Vegas couldn't do? Not putting you on the spot, just a generalized wonder.


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Bob Peterson
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 19, 2015 at 3:18:56 pm

You can solve the problem with a rational process or continue to complain about baby steps. It's really a choice as to what you want to accomplish.


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Richard Moskowitz
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 19, 2015 at 7:51:49 pm

Thanks for the advise. I did a low level and a bare bones of win 7 64. Just tried a render and still hugely out of sync.


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Nigel O'Neill
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 19, 2015 at 12:28:37 pm

Richard, you won't happened to have installed a codec pack such as K-lite to your system, would you? Doing so can have a detrimental effect on Vegas. Check your installed programs in control panel. Are you rendering CBR or VBR? Which version of Vegas are you using?

My system specs: Intel i7 970, 12GB RAM, ASUS P6T, Vegas Pro 12 (x64), Windows 7 x64 Ultimate, Vegas Production Assistant 1.0, VASST Ultimate S Pro 4.1, Neat Video Pro 2.6


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Richard Moskowitz
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 19, 2015 at 7:55:35 pm

Absolutely no third party anything's. Render with variable. Vegas Pro 13 64(Build 373)


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Graham Bernard
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 19, 2015 at 8:17:50 pm

[Richard Moskowitz] " Vegas Pro 13 64(Build 373)"
Richard, the latest build is 428. Not saying anything else than at least get the most recent Build - yeah?

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Nigel O'Neill
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 20, 2015 at 1:44:41 am

If you are using GPU accleration under video preferences, you might want to try turning it OFF

My system specs: Intel i7 970, 12GB RAM, ASUS P6T, Vegas Pro 12 (x64), Windows 7 x64 Ultimate, Vegas Production Assistant 1.0, VASST Ultimate S Pro 4.1, Neat Video Pro 2.6


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Neal Barlow
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 20, 2015 at 6:19:58 am

Greeting All,
I do VHS to DVD transfer for clients all the time. I've had a hick-up before when I was jumping between 16x9 and 4x3 templates and not watching if I grabbed a 24p template or not. The pull-down has thrown off my audio before. When that happenned I just work the chain to find the problem. You need to make sure that your audio setting and your video settings in export/render work with each other. The Main Concept - while not up dated is good and reliable. In fact VAAST's freebie of DVD Prep (Shout out to John there - I think that one was yours wasn't it?) is a great little script that makes things pretty simple.

I think your Windows Movie Maker experience worked and was simply because it has very simple options and the stars aligned for you. Sooner or later though, you will throw it either something too long or not to it's liking and it will freak or just take eons to render. It's like using a Black & Decker cordless screwdriver to drive in screws. It works for little things, but man, I wouldn't want to use it to put in a deck. That's when you want a real screw gun (Vegas).

I'd be more than happy to share any settings with you for templates I've made, should it help...Oh and another great tool to have hand when doing tranfers is "Mark's DVD Bitrate Calculator" it's a java dealy that is such a great tool for crunching number for rendering out .mpg for any video length to DVD.


We're here to help you. :)

Neal Barlow
To The Skies Productions
Gh2, Sony Vegas 13, AE6 and Stuff, cause that's the real secret ingredient.


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John Rofrano
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 20, 2015 at 11:20:17 am

[Neal Barlow] "I've had a hick-up before when I was jumping between 16x9 and 4x3 templates and not watching if I grabbed a 24p template or not."
Good point. make sure that your project and render setting match your media.
[Neal Barlow] "In fact VAAST's freebie of DVD Prep (Shout out to John there - I think that one was yours wasn't it?) is a great little script that makes things pretty simple."
Guilty as charged. lol ;-) (glad you find it useful)

I'm starting to think it might be the media files if it's not the project settings. If you reformatted and did a clean install there must be something about the media files that is causing Vegas Pro to go out of sync.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Stephen Mann
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 20, 2015 at 5:07:45 pm

Just a wild guess here - The AVermedia makes an MPEG2 file, and I'll bet the audio is multiplexed and at a different clock rate than what Vegas expects.

In my opinion, MPEG2 is a horrible format to use for an intermediate.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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john bolton
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 21, 2015 at 8:43:44 am

Out of curiosity, have you tried to render the video only to Mpeg2 and then the audio to AC-3 and use DVD Architect to make a DVD, and see if it is on sync.. Or even just render the video to Mpeg2 and the audio to AC-3 and then make a new project and drop them on the time lines and then render as normal. I know the quality will not be the same but it is just to try and work out what the problem is not.. rather than what the problem may be...


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Richard Moskowitz
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 26, 2015 at 2:29:16 pm

Many thanks for the suggestion. I did try it. Rendering video and audio separately went fine, but I can only drop the video portion as a new project on the timeline. I had rendered the audio portion as .ac3 as you suggested, but Vegas wont let me drop the audio into the timeline. And neither of the files are listed in the explorer of Vegas. I dropped the video portion by going to windows explorer, but the .ac3 wouldn't take on the timeline.


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John Rofrano
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 26, 2015 at 2:46:34 pm

[Richard Moskowitz] "but I can only drop the video portion as a new project on the timeline. I had rendered the audio portion as .ac3 as you suggested, but Vegas wont let me drop the audio into the timeline."
That's correct. They are not meant to be edited. I thought you were making a DVD? AC3 audio is for DVD's.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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john bolton
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 26, 2015 at 2:54:58 pm

Have you tried putting the files into DVD Architect. Make sure both file name have the same name ( before the . extension and making a DVD to see if the audio is in sync?.


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Richard Moskowitz
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 26, 2015 at 5:36:16 pm

I don't have dvd architect.


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Richard Moskowitz
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 27, 2015 at 4:50:25 pm

I was mistaken, I did have DVD Architect. I did just as you said Mr. Bolton(many thanks), but when the mpg and ac3 were dropped on the timeline, I played and they both were hugely out of sync. I did not even attempt to make a dvd for that reason, and DVD Architect had said it was too small to fit on a standard(4.7) dvd.


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john bolton
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 28, 2015 at 8:34:38 am

Hello Richard. What is the actual size of the video you are trying to make?


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Richard Moskowitz
Re: Vegas Designers Should Be Embarrassed...
on Feb 28, 2015 at 2:08:01 pm

5g's


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