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Lossless Rendering issue

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Jarek Hanzelka
Lossless Rendering issue
on Feb 9, 2015 at 1:40:50 pm

This may not be an issue, it may be perfectly normal this way, but I'd like to believe something this extreme is out of the ordinary.

I have a 6min .mp4 video file, which is 980MB in size. All I need to do with the file editingwise is to get rid of letterboxes and add a few simple text lines. I do so, and proceed to render the file at 720p60fps. I wish to use a lossless codec, but no matter which one I use, the result file size is always about 60GB. It's always about 10GB per minute, whether I use Lagarith, MagicYUV, SonyYUV, utVideo, you name it. Is this kind of size normal? And is it normal that the different codecs would result in roughly the same size? If so, I just might have to kiss lossless rendering goodbye.


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John Rofrano
Re: Lossless Rendering issue
on Feb 9, 2015 at 5:07:29 pm

[Jarek Hanzelka] "I wish to use a lossless codec, but no matter which one I use, the result file size is always about 60GB. It's always about 10GB per minute, whether I use Lagarith, MagicYUV, SonyYUV, utVideo, you name it. Is this kind of size normal?"
Do the math: 1280x720 = 921,600 pixels per frame. For 8-bit RGB video each pixel requires 3 bytes to hold the color data (R+G+B). 3 x 921,600 = 2,764,800 bytes per frame. So each frame requires almost 3MB of data. 2,764,800 bytes x 60 fps = 165,888,000 bytes. That's for one second of data. 165,888,000 bytes x 60 seconds = 9,953,280,000 bytes. So each minute of uncompressed 720-60p requites 9.9 GB of data (which is about 10GB).
[Jarek Hanzelka] "And is it normal that the different codecs would result in roughly the same size?"
Uncompressed is uncompressed. Codecs use compression to make the data smaller. Lossless compression should reduce the data size by about half. Are you sure that you are using a codec and not rendering uncompressed?
[Jarek Hanzelka] "If so, I just might have to kiss lossless rendering goodbye."
Lossless rendering will always produce huge files. Why do you believe you need lossless rendering? if you started out with highly compressed MP4 video, it makes absolutely no sense to render it to a lossless codec unless you are going to process it more. Even then, lossless is probably overkill for your situation.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Jarek Hanzelka
Re: Lossless Rendering issue
on Feb 9, 2015 at 6:28:36 pm

Thanks for your reply, John! And for doing that math.

Yeah, I'm positive I'm using a codec. Funnily enough I tried going uncompress, just to see what kind of size would I get out of that. I reach 10GB after a few seconds of rendering. It was all kinds of wonderful.

Yes, I aim to process the video further. I'm currently looking into possible workarounds, using aviSynth with .mp4, utilizing frameserver+meGUI in Vegas, and a few others. It would be a long story to tell as for why am I doing all this, so I won't even go there. My question was answered and my worries confirmed, and I expected as much.

Thanks again!


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John Rofrano
Re: Lossless Rendering issue
on Feb 9, 2015 at 11:33:41 pm

You might want to use a visually lossless codec like CineForm. You can get it with the free GoPro Studio. CineForm files will be smaller than uncompressed and you won't loose hardly any quality after many re-renders. When you set up your CineForm template in Vegas Pro, use the Medium setting in the codec. It defaults to Film which produces huge files and is not necessary unless you are processing film. Medium is a good trade-off between size and quality.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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