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Picture in picture "ghosting" bug

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Nikola Petrovic
Picture in picture "ghosting" bug
on Feb 4, 2015 at 6:18:16 am

I want to make a video with a picture in picture (smaller video placed over a bigger one) in Sony Vegas Pro 11.
I've done that with pan/crop tool, but I am getting some very annoying "ghosting" on random frames, and a green vertical line (perhaps the edge of the smaller video). I am not sure that ghosting is the correct word for what's happening. Take a look at the screenshots:


And here is an image of how picture in picture was made with pan/crop

This isn't just a preview problem, I get the same thing in the rendered video.
In my project properties frame rate is set to 30.000 fps (same as source media), filed order none, deinterlace method: Blend fields.

I have tried the following to no avail:
On the video events - Disable resample, Reduce interlace flicker.
On the smaller video event - Masking the video.
When rendering - Changing all three field orders.

I would appreciate if anyone has a solution for this problem.
--Nikola


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Graham Bernard
Re: Picture in picture "ghosting" bug
on Feb 4, 2015 at 8:43:11 am

[Nikola Petrovic] "I would appreciate if anyone has a solution for this problem."
Personally, I need more screen shots. For example I'd like to see your Track Layouts on your Timeline - all of the Tracks. As to the Green line, and WHY it is happening, I don't know, but you could try masking the Insert and setting a Feather-edge.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Nikola Petrovic
Re: Picture in picture "ghosting" bug
on Feb 4, 2015 at 10:10:10 am
Last Edited By Nikola Petrovic on Feb 4, 2015 at 10:14:37 am

I have 3 tracks: First one for title, second one for the smaller video insert, and the third contains the full resolution video. Here is a screenshot:

The only Event FX that I have is Sony Levels (Computer RBG to Studio RGB) to make the videos brighter. Removing that effect does't solve the problem.

I don't know if it is of any relevance, but the ghosted image doesn't stay in one place, it is moving vertically.
For example frames 1802,1803,1804,1805:


Last but not least, thank you for the suggestion, but unfortunately masking it and setting feather did not fix the ghosting problem.

Without masking:


With masking (and feather):


With masking, no feather, cutting the right edge off:


--Nikola


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Norman Black
Re: Picture in picture "ghosting" bug
on Feb 4, 2015 at 11:29:27 pm

One thing you can try is to turn GPU support OFF in Video Prefs. Just get that question out of the way first.


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Nikola Petrovic
Re: Picture in picture "ghosting" bug
on Feb 5, 2015 at 3:46:55 am

I've accidentally clicked on solution button (wanted to click reply...), sorry about that, now I can not undo the solution flag (I don't see an option for it). The bug is still here.

Thank you for your Suggestion Norman. I've tried this:


And I've also tried rendering the video with cpu only:


But the ghosting problem won't go away.
What I have also noticed is that the ghosted image is not always on the same frame.
Let me elaborate. When I close Sony Vegas and open it again ghosted image shows up on random frames, not always on the same ones. This leads me to belive that this ghosting problem is a bug in the software.

--Nikola


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Nikola Petrovic
Re: Picture in picture "ghosting" bug
on Feb 5, 2015 at 5:53:58 am

After a lot of time, I've found what is causing the ghosting bug.
It appears that in Sony Vegas Pro 11 you have to have all source media in the same resolution (in my case 1920x1080), in order not to get ghosting bug when placing one video over another (picture in picture).
My insert video had resolution: 1420x799, and the big video in the background had: 1920x1080. So I had to render my insert video to match the bigger resolution, upscale, I know not a good option. But since I am going to pan/crop it and make it smaller, it has very little impact on the end quality.
I've also tried making a new Vegas project with FULL HD, placing the smaller video there, saving it and then importing it into my main project, but this didn't fix the ghosting bug.
So in the end, you have to render one of the files to match the other ones resolution.

Some screenshots of media I was working with:
1. Bug present:




2. Bug fixed:


This solution works, but if anyone has a better one that doesn't include rendering, and therefore loss of time, please share.

--Nikola


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Graham Bernard
Re: Picture in picture "ghosting" bug
on Feb 5, 2015 at 8:53:28 am

Whilst I commend your thoughtful and detailed analysis, I'm having difficulty calling this a BUG. Preparing media by transcoding or whatever means, is all part of the workload of a pro editor.

Mostly VP does a fine job in getting us going. Maybe what you're requesting VP to is too much. BUG? Not sure.

Best regards

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Nikola Petrovic
Re: Picture in picture "ghosting" bug
on Feb 5, 2015 at 10:19:03 am
Last Edited By Nikola Petrovic on Feb 5, 2015 at 12:39:41 pm

It is in fact a program bug, the definition of a software bug by Wiki:
"A software bug is an error, flaw, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways".
Vegas Pro 11 is not behaving as it supposed to behave, and is giving unexpected results (ghosting and that green vertical line on the right side).

I do agree with you that preparing media is a part of the person doing editing. That being said, program (in this case Vegas Pro 11) should not have allowed me to overlap two media of different resolutions if the result is going to be unpredictable. Or at least give me a warning that the result is going to be unpredictable/incorrect, and/or offer a better solution.

Oversimplified example: Windows calculator. Try dividing by 0 (user mistake) it will show "Cannot divide by zero", instead of crashing or displaying some false result.

--Nikola


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