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Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks

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Debbie King
Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 9:01:21 am
Last Edited By Debbie King on Dec 28, 2014 at 9:02:45 am

Hi Everyone:

I was able to burn my project to Blu ray and all went really well last week. Today, I burned the film on DVD (720x480) to show it to someone, and the sound was off, the color was not good, and I was getting noises and freezes. My project is 1920x1080, but when I select Render As, I keep seeing selections of different dimensions, mostly 720x480, but none of the project dimensions. When I select Quicktime, I can select 1920x1080, but most of the other settings do not give me those dimensions. Would anyone know the best settings for this size project (160 tracks), where I can get the quality despite the compression. My discovery is that when I select HD settings, the file is very large, and I would not be able to fit it onto a DVD (I use Double Layer DVD's)

My overall objective is to submit to the festivals. My concern is that the viewer would not have the experience my audience had at my screening because of the heavy amount of compression when burning to DVD. Not the same quality either.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Debbie


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Graham Bernard
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 12:44:38 pm

DVD is the lower resolution.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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John Rofrano
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 2:45:42 pm

[Debbie King] "Would anyone know the best settings for this size project (160 tracks), where I can get the quality despite the compression."
You should use the MainConcept MPEG-2 encoder with the DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream template for the video. Then use Dolby Digital AC3 with the appropriate template for the audio but you probably already have this from the Blu-ray rendering. You can use the Customize Template... button to adjust the video template for better quality by selecting Two Pass option on the Video tab and set the Video rendering quality to Best on the Project tab. This will make the best use of the bit rate and resize at the best quality.
[Debbie King] "My concern is that the viewer would not have the experience my audience had at my screening because of the heavy amount of compression when burning to DVD. Not the same quality either."
Yea, well that's the difference between HD and SD which is 5x. It's sad that film festivals are stuck in the 90's with DVD as the only submission format. SD will never look as good as HD. Nothing you can do about it.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 3:21:43 pm

Hi John and Grazie:

Thank you.

John: I remember in the past selecting the Architect NTSC Widescreen Video Stream, but I didn't remember that it only had the 720x480 size available. For some reason, I thought it had options to select 1920x1080. I don't remember typing it in. Is that what you do, or do you leave the size as is? Is the size smaller, so to accommodate the compression that is required to fit on a DVD? I tried another way and adjusted the size, and although my original project is a 21GB, when I rendered it, it still compressed it, but was too sizable for DVD.

Many thanks,

Debbie


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Graham Bernard
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 4:02:11 pm

Debbie, what's the PlayTime of your video?

G

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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John Rofrano
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 4:27:30 pm

[Debbie King] "For some reason, I thought it had options to select 1920x1080. I don't remember typing it in. Is that what you do, or do you leave the size as is? Is the size smaller, so to accommodate the compression that is required to fit on a DVD?"
The DVD was invented in 1995 long before HD existed. DVD's are NOT HD. You cannot type in 1920x0180. DVD's are 720x480 and that's as good as it gets. Do not mess with these parameters. They are set to be DVD compliant.
[Debbie King] "I tried another way and adjusted the size, and although my original project is a 21GB, when I rendered it, it still compressed it, but was too sizable for DVD."
As Graham asked, how long is your DVD in minutes. You may need to use Dual Layer DVD's.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 9:05:36 pm

Hi John:

I am using a DL DVD for this project, because the compression shrinks it to 7.65GB when I render directly through Sony. When I rendered through Quicktime, it was even smaller, like 2.65GB.

Many thanks,

Debbie


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John Rofrano
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 9:20:57 pm

What settings are you using that a 1 hr 39 minute project is 7.65GB? That sounds like a lot. Make sure that you are not using a bit rate that is too high or else they may have problems playing it.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 10:29:59 pm
Last Edited By Debbie King on Dec 28, 2014 at 10:34:11 pm

Hi John:

When I burn direct to DVD, I don't have the choice of selecting settings. It automatically gives me mpeg2 720x480 NTSC 24p. I can only edit settings when I select Render As. I don't know the bit rate when I burn directly. The automatic size is 7.65GB. This seems to fit well in my Dual Layer, but yes, yesterday I did have problems. I can't seem to understand what happened to the color. When I played it on my computer after rendering, I didn't see the color problem, but we played it on a television that was not designed for HD. It was a good television, but not a new one, like a flat screen. Then we dropped in another movie and everything about that movie was absolutely perfect color and sound. Of course it was a studio movie, but I just wanted to know how would I be able to achieve that look on a regular television.

Many thanks,

Debbie


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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 9:03:23 pm

Hi Grazie:

It's 1 hr and 39 minutes.

Many thanks,

Debbie


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Graham Bernard
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 9:20:53 pm

Using a carefully constructed Template you can make a good DVD. I've got to 2 hours and they look fine.

Why are you dealing with QT if you want a DVD? I don't understand? A DVD is of creating format and QT ain't part of it, well, not the last time I looked.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 10:25:40 pm

Thanks Grazie:

I never use QT, but I was testing everything since I had used Mpeg2 yesterday and I received noises and freezes. I also saw where the cut didn't look clean, but when I look on the preview screen in Sony, it all looks well. I am so unclear as to how to fix that. Maybe it was just that particular render. I will test it again.

Many thanks,

Debbie


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Graham Bernard
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 10:49:28 pm

"When I rendered through Quicktime, it was even smaller, like 2.65GB."

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 29, 2014 at 1:15:57 am

Hi Grazie:

Yes, when I attempted a Quicktime render, I ended up with a file about 2.5GB or slightly larger. I thought it to be too small, so I started looking into getting a file the size large enough to fit on a DL DVD. Should it make much of a difference?

Many thanks,

Debbie


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Graham Bernard
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 29, 2014 at 9:04:51 am

[Debbie King] "I thought it to be too small, so I started looking into getting a file the size large enough to fit on a DL DVD. Should it make much of a difference?"
Debbie you are looking through the wrong end of the telescope: QT is not for a playing DVD. YEs as a DATA DVD disc, but not as a free/auto-playing DVD. Files for DVDs are:
1] MPEGS - Video

2] AC3 - Audio
Again, why even contemplate QT?

OK, here's a screengrab I did for you from Mark's DVD Bitrate Calculator:-



Here you can see the use of Variable Bit Rate (VBR) Template using:

Minimum: 3.232mb/s
Average: 5.392mb/s
Maximum: 9.448mb/s

You may want to TWEAK-down the max, but it your playtime video would fit a 4.7gb DVD platter.

Here's where you can use the COW to access the calculator: COW for David's Bitrate Calculator

However, all of this is starting to pall into insignificance as with my clients they are wanting non-DVD as their choice of distribution. Yet again, we are all standing at a Crossroads of decision making for clients . . . . Actually, the Crossroads are now multiple and not a little confusing either.

I do hope all this has been helpful in shedding some light on what can be a daunting mess of Render issues.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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John Rofrano
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 29, 2014 at 12:27:51 pm

[Debbie King] "Yes, when I attempted a Quicktime render, I ended up with a file about 2.5GB or slightly larger. I thought it to be too small, so I started looking into getting a file the size large enough to fit on a DL DVD. Should it make much of a difference?"
Yes, it makes a difference. DVD's can only contain MPEG2 video. That's it. It makes no sense to render your project in any other format than MPEG2. This is what Graham is trying to tell you.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Jan 2, 2015 at 7:20:37 am

Happy New Year Everybody!

Hi Grazie:

Thank you so much. It definitely sheds light. I really appreciate this. .

Best,

Debbie


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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 28, 2014 at 9:20:09 pm

Hi John:

This is amazing. I showed my film yesterday to some people in their home, and the movie had some issues. The cut wasn't clean, yet in the software, the cut seems clean. What I discovered was when they dropped in a studio movie, the color was great and so was the sound. No changes, like what my film experienced. What do you think could be wrong, or do you think that the copies made for the studio were not compressed? They were copies made from HD. Wait, I just thought of something. Maybe the movie was in film. Your thoughts!

Many thanks,

Debbie


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John Rofrano
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 29, 2014 at 12:50:34 am

[Debbie King] "What I discovered was when they dropped in a studio movie, the color was great and so was the sound. No changes, like what my film experienced. What do you think could be wrong, or do you think that the copies made for the studio were not compressed?"
Did you color correct on a display that was hardware calibrated? Because that's what the studies do. If you make it look great on a screen that's not calibrated, it's not going to look great on other screen that are calibrated.

I would look at the studio movie on the same display that you color corrected with and see what the studio movie looks like.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 29, 2014 at 1:14:13 am
Last Edited By Debbie King on Dec 29, 2014 at 1:17:59 am

Hi John:

Oh I see! No, I color corrected on my computer. I had in the past, had a monitor connected, but since, I disconnected it and completed my color correction on the computer.

I have an HD flat screen. Should that make much of a difference if I color corrected on that screen and then showed it on a screen that is not HD or flat screen?

Thank you so much John.

Best,

Debbie


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John Rofrano
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 29, 2014 at 12:25:37 pm

[Debbie King] "No, I color corrected on my computer. I had in the past, had a monitor connected, but since, I disconnected it and completed my color correction on the computer. "
So you color corrected on an uncalibrated monitor and you want to know why your colors look different on a TV? I think you just answered your question. You didn't calibrate to a reference so you have no idea if white is white or red is red or if actually they are grey or pale blue or orange. You can't trust your eyes because your eyes will adjust and lie to you. if you brain thinks a cloud should be white, your eyes will see it as white even though it's a pale blue. You can only trust hardware calibration.
[Debbie King] "I have an HD flat screen. Should that make much of a difference if I color corrected on that screen and then showed it on a screen that is not HD or flat screen?"
What you should be doing is using a secondary display that is calibrated with a hardware calibrator like a Spyder Pro 4. Then, and only then, can you trust the colors you are seeing. I don't know what you man by "HD flat screen". Is that a computer monitor or an HD TV? If it's an HD TV isn't probably worse because HD TV's use all sorts if tricks to try and make their picture look better than the TV right next to it in the store so they are NOT a good reference. You should use a calibrated computer monitor.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 30, 2014 at 6:38:59 am
Last Edited By Debbie King on Dec 30, 2014 at 7:04:00 am

Hi John:

Thank you so much. This makes so much sense. I was speaking of TV. My funds are so super short that I am not sure if I can purchase the hardware for calibration. Is there any other way I can calibrate my monitor, with perhaps, software?

Best,

Debbie


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John Rofrano
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 30, 2014 at 1:08:21 pm

[Debbie King] "Is there any other way I can calibrate my monitor, with perhaps, software?"
It's hard without a professional monitor that has a "blue gun" control. Here is a tutorial by Glenn Chan that explains the manual process:

How to calibrate a broadcast monitor to color bars (NTSC)

There are other tutorials you can find on the web. You can use Vegas Pro to feed the color bars to your monitor and try and adjust as best you can but without the blue gun control, you'll never get the colors correct because, as i said, you eyes aren't accurate enough to tell you when red is actually red.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 30, 2014 at 5:27:22 pm

Thank you so much John.

I will read the article. I'm thinking that at the very least, the Blu ray came out ok, so submit with it, and work on correcting my color issue incrementally, until I am better budgeted. I will try the manual route as well. It's better than not doing it at all.

All the best,

Debbie


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Nigel O'Neill
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Dec 31, 2014 at 10:20:57 pm

Debbie

Much of the assistance I provide to some Vegas editors in my local area relates to colour grading. Having a high quality professional monitor is essential. Editing using a TV as a monitor or an over head projector is not ideal and will result in discs being returned and poor colour quality overall.

What John did not mention is that even the colour of the light used in your editing room can affect you perception of colour, as your brain will adjust automatically to see the 'correct' colour, but our cameras don't lie (if set up correctly). Setting up your camera during the shoot with a simple manual white and black balance (if your camera has such capability), goes a long way to cutting down work in the edit stage.

Debbie, I do a lot of live video work which I then edit and deliver to the performers later on. In terms of showing the final work, I sell the performers a DVD but I also give the show's producers an MP4 file created by the free Vegasaur Youtube plugin. They then play that back through a computer connected by HDMI cable to an HDMI projector in a theatre to all the performers. It's much better than DVD and pretty close to bluray. It might help to ask the festival producers next time if they will accept file delivery.

My system specs: Intel i7 970, 12GB RAM, ASUS P6T, Vegas Pro 12 (x64), Windows 7 x64 Ultimate, Vegas Production Assistant 1.0, VASST Ultimate S Pro 4.1, Neat Video Pro 2.6


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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Jan 1, 2015 at 12:13:50 am

Hi Nigel:

Thank you so much. This is great info. Not sure if my computer monitor would be professional, but I have the ASUS Entertainment computer designed for gaming and editing. Other than that I don't have anything comparable. The strange thing is that I have played my film on my HD TV and the color was the same as what I see on my computer screen. I may experience some additional contrast, but the color is intact. The experience I had last Sunday, at someone's home was odd, because for some reason the color was reddish.

Many thanks again.

Best,

Debbie


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John Rofrano
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Jan 1, 2015 at 4:50:16 pm

[Debbie King] "The experience I had last Sunday, at someone's home was odd, because for some reason the color was reddish."
I'll bet that their TV has several "modes" (e.g., theatre mode, sports mode, game mode, etc.) and the TV just needed to be adjusted. My HD TV in my family room looks nothing like my HD TV in my upstairs bedroom and it's just because the manufacturer's alter the image to make the image look "better" which makes no 2 TV's look alike because every manufacturer's idea of "better" is different.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Debbie King
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Jan 2, 2015 at 7:27:58 am

Happy New Year Everybody!

Hi John:

Thank you so much for clarifying. I was really thinking it had something to do with the color that came off the DVD, because I had not previewed it before we saw it. Actually I had previewed the one I rendered prior to this one, but had to render one with a level change. I didn't have time to preview the last one I rendered.

So even if I calibrate my monitors, I can still have an experience with different looks on a TV monitor based on the TV's settings? For my TV, I use the factory settings, because I never made any adjustments. Would you say, in this case, the picture would be more accurate?

Many thanks,

Debbie


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John Rofrano
Re: Best Settings for burning to DVD with a Project that has Many Tracks
on Jan 2, 2015 at 1:40:34 pm

[Debbie King] "So even if I calibrate my monitors, I can still have an experience with different looks on a TV monitor based on the TV's settings?"
Absolutely. People joke that NTSC standands for Never The Same Color. ;-)
[Debbie King] "For my TV, I use the factory settings, because I never made any adjustments. Would you say, in this case, the picture would be more accurate?"
The only accurate picture is the one on a properly calibrated broadcast monitor. Everything else is a gamble. Like I said, my two HD TV's look completely different and they both use the "factory" settings. Obviously you don't want your video to have a red cast on some TV's when other programs don't have a red cast, but it ill look different on every TV. Some lighter, some darker, some more red, some more contrast, etc. There's nothing you can do about it. You want it to look as good as other content on the same TV does.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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