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Converting 30p to 24p in Sony Vegas

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Kell Hymer
Converting 30p to 24p in Sony Vegas
on Nov 21, 2014 at 8:52:17 am

My videos are intended for Blu-ray output. The videos consist of photo slideshows than pan horizontally across the pictures and many animations that are only in 30p. I have found that rendering to 24p causes the animations to look horrible and photo panning to look choppy. As such, I have been producing 60i Blu-Ray videos. Does anyone know of a way to improve picture quality while maintaining the smoother movement facilitated by the interlaced format?

I am preparing a Blu-ray project with the source material in 30p. Let's say I did actually decide to convert it to 24p. First off, I will lose 6 different frames every second which will cause choppy motion. When the Blu-Ray plays back on a TV at 30Hz or 60Hz, it will automatically apply a 2:3 pull down which will only add to the judder/choppiness. Seems to me I am better off rendering to 60i. However, I was thinking about another method that *might* reduce the number from 6 dropped frames a second down to 5 a second. This will likely produce no noticeable quality improvement but it does make me wonder. Let's say I take my 30p film and render it out to 120fps. Now, each source frame should be repeated 4 times (30x4=120). Now, render it again but as 24fps. So 120/24=5, the software, assuming it processes this way, will grab every fifth frame. In doing so, it will drop 1 original source frame every 5 frames which should equate to 5 dropped source frames a second. To illustrate:

120fps frames: AAAABBBBCCCCDDDDEEEEFFFFGGGGHHHHIIIIJJJJKKKK
Render down to 24fps: ABCDFGHIK (notice that E and J) have been dropped.

Of course, the TV will still apply a 2:3 pull-down to play it at 30fps, assuming it is not a special TV that can be manually set to play back at 24fps. This will likely not produce any significant difference, but I wonder if it would work.

As my videos have animated titles and pans across still images, I will likely stick with 60i. However, can a Blu-Ray be authored to include multiple formats on the same disc? In other words, let’s say I start shooting in 24p in the future. Can the film play back in 24p, but the menu with heavy animation and text play in 60i? Does Vegas offer any type of interpolation techniques that might make converting from 30p to 24p look smoother?

Current System: Intel i7 3820 | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)


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John Rofrano
Re: Converting 30p to 24p in Sony Vegas
on Nov 21, 2014 at 4:13:51 pm

[Kell Hymer] "I am preparing a Blu-ray project with the source material in 30p. Let's say I did actually decide to convert it to 24p. First off, I will lose 6 different frames every second which will cause choppy motion. "
Yes. There is no reason to use 24p. If your video is 30p, rendering to 60i is your best choice because it will still look like it's progressive because the 60 interlaced fields will be taken from the same 30 points in time.
[Kell Hymer] "I will likely stick with 60i. However, can a Blu-Ray be authored to include multiple formats on the same disc? In other words, let’s say I start shooting in 24p in the future. Can the film play back in 24p, but the menu with heavy animation and text play in 60i? "
Yes, you can mix and match 60i and 24p on the same Blu-ray or DVD. The menu frame rate does not have to match the movie frame rate.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Kell Hymer
Re: Converting 30p to 24p in Sony Vegas
on Nov 23, 2014 at 7:27:29 am

Thank you John. I assume that 24p content and 60i content on the same disk will have to be authored to the disc as separate videos. In other words, I imagine it is not possible to render a single video to play a 24p at some points and 60i at others. Can DVD architect stitch video together seamlessly? For example, let's say I make a video that consists of 24p video and still pictures. Could I render the video to 24p and the stills to 60i, and then have DVD Architect play them back-to-back without pause so it appears to the viewer seamlessly as if it is one video? This probably sounds crazy but I am just learning all of this and these forums have been a great help.

On a related note, If I have a 24p project and I want to add 30p stock animations or backgrounds without the animations losing 6 frames every second, could I stretch the 30p animation out on the timeline until it slows down to 24 frames a second? It will affect the speed of the animation, but in theory I should not lose any frames. Someone mentioned this to me and it seems to make sense.

Current System: Intel i7 3820 | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)


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John Rofrano
Re: Converting 30p to 24p in Sony Vegas
on Nov 23, 2014 at 11:57:02 am

[Kell Hymer] "I assume that 24p content and 60i content on the same disk will have to be authored to the disc as separate videos. In other words, I imagine it is not possible to render a single video to play a 24p at some points and 60i at others."
That's correct. A video can have only one frame rate.
[Kell Hymer] "Can DVD architect stitch video together seamlessly? For example, let's say I make a video that consists of 24p video and still pictures. Could I render the video to 24p and the stills to 60i, and then have DVD Architect play them back-to-back without pause so it appears to the viewer seamlessly as if it is one video?"
It can play them back-to-back as if they were one video but it doesn't stitch them together. It's simply a play list where it plays one and then the other and the pause in between should be imperceptible. To do this you sent the End Action of the first video to Play the second video.
[Kell Hymer] "This probably sounds crazy but I am just learning all of this and these forums have been a great help."
No crazy at all. In fact, it's the proper way to ask for help. Most people try and solve the problem themselves and then ask questions about their particular solution which may be the wrong approach entirely (and sound crazy). You have expressed your desired behavior and asked us for the solution which helps us understand what it is you are trying to achieve and gives you the right solution from the start. I wish more people asked questions that way. ;-)
[Kell Hymer] "If I have a 24p project and I want to add 30p stock animations or backgrounds without the animations losing 6 frames every second, could I stretch the 30p animation out on the timeline until it slows down to 24 frames a second? It will affect the speed of the animation, but in theory I should not lose any frames. Someone mentioned this to me and it seems to make sense."
Yes, that would work fine. Just go into the event properties of the 30p footage and Disable Resample and set the Playback rate to 0.800. This will play the 30p footage back at 23.976 fps (24p).

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Kell Hymer
Re: Converting 30p to 24p in Sony Vegas
on Nov 27, 2014 at 12:07:38 am

Thanks John,

This has been very helpful. I started out video editing for fun on Windows Movie Maker and while it is still a hobby, I have taken it to a much higher level with a high end PC and Pro software and plug-ins. When I started, I had no idea how complex video really was. I now can say I can wrap my head around a lot of it and actually enjoy the challenges I have encountered as it has forced me to learn. Considering it is a non-monetized hobby, I am surprised I have stuck with it and not given up, but I find it fascinating. I primarily work on home videos of vacations and the family. No one ever really goes back on to a PC to look at the thousands of video and photo taken now days unless it is posted to Facebook. However, it is another story if you are able to turn the memories into a stunning video, delivered as a Blu-Ray disc with printed art on the disk and a professionally printed case insert. People are more interested when it is presented well and they do not all have to crowd behind someone's laptop as they click through 500 pictures, giving commentary on each one!

Thanks again for the help.

Current System: Intel i7 3820 | Asus P9X79 Deluxe | Nvidia Quadro 4000 & 2000 | OCZ Revo 480 GB PCI Express SSD | Windows 7 64 bit | Vegas Pro 12 (64)


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John Rofrano
Re: Converting 30p to 24p in Sony Vegas
on Nov 27, 2014 at 12:25:08 am

You're welcome Kell. That's exactly how I got started doing family videos and then gradually progressed into making a business out of it. You never know what the future brings. As long as it remains fun that all that matters. Your work should always be fun,,, then it's not work at all. ;-)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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