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Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??

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Andy Fantom
Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 16, 2014 at 3:07:03 pm
Last Edited By Andy Fantom on Nov 16, 2014 at 3:11:25 pm

Long story short, I'm building a Gaming PC.

Here is a draft build so far
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/MMKgqs

However, I want to decrease the price of this build to $900-$1000, give or take. I want to keep the 970, but everything else is fair game.


The reason I posted this here? Because I also use Sony Vegas a lot. I do a lot of editing+rendering on it. The current laptop I have has a GTX660m, with an i7-3630qm. Although it's "okay" for rendering, I'd like a CPU where I render videos MUCH faster compared to this laptop. I also do a lot of video recording. I use no other type of editors, or rendering programs.


I've heard various suggestions from other forums. People say to go with the I7-4790k, and other say to go with the I5-4690k. With budget in mind+Video editing in mind, along with me still wanting to play games, what do you guys suggest? Especially since the main editing I do is with Vegas?

Go with the I5 in this build? Or stick with the i7 and try to decrease other parts in this build? How does the I5-4690k compare to the I7-3630qm for editing, rendering, and all that jazz?


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John Rofrano
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 16, 2014 at 3:59:01 pm

I don't see how you're going to take $200 out of that build without reducing the graphics card. It is totally useless for Vegas Pro but I understand that you want it for gaming. The most important factor in video editing is CPU power. Core i5's are adequate for video editing but not optimal. Intel classifies them for "content consumption" but recommend Core i7 for "content creation". I agree with Intel. You really need a Core i7 for video editing.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Scott Francis
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 16, 2014 at 6:03:08 pm

I am using the i7 4790 (NON K). Great for editing and rendering. I am using an older AMD 6870 and with GPU acceleration, I see pretty fast Mp4 render times. Coming from MXF to MP4, about 60-75% of the length of video (as in one hour video takes 35-45 mins). So if you are using MP4 as your render to format, you should do pretty well. I never overclock anything (as I don't trust that when working with client files). i7 is all I would use...

Best

Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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Heinrich Himmel
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 18, 2014 at 1:03:56 pm

The 4690K is about 1.5x to 2x faster than a 3630qm. If your laptop has a good GPU then there will be little if any benefit to a new system. One thing however, if you have an nVidia optimus GPU your laptop will likely not work properly. Optimus cannot be disabled in many laptops and does not work as it should. The GPU will always be disabled in Sony Vegas, so your render times will be horrible and you will not get any timeline acceleration (editing will be sluggish).

For a Vegas + Gaming build at $1000, why not go AMD? The FX 8320 will outperform the 4690 in Vegas and will play all of your games in 1080p High/Ultra (provided you have a good GPU) (you will get more FPS with the 4690k, but it will not make any game playable that is not playable with the AMD).

Also consider an R9 290x. The 4GB Vapor-X version (now sold out) was only $229 last week. This would save approx $100 on GPU alone and perform equally to the GTX 970 in gaming and outperform it by about 2x in Vegas.

I have suggested a system that meets your budget. It will perform about equal to the 4790K in Vegas. In gaming it will not perform as well as the $1300 system you were considering. Reason being the GTX 970 is slightly better than the R9 290 and the i5/i7 have stronger single core performance. In most games, the difference will be negligible however as neither CPU will bottleneck a single GPU in most cases.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kvChGX
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kvChGX/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor ($124.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($31.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($118.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($149.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($85.44 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($51.99 @ Directron)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($222.00 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($111.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($39.04 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1000.40
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-18 07:52 EST-0500


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Andy Fantom
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 18, 2014 at 1:49:06 pm

@Above poster


For Nvidia Gamestreaming+ShadowPlay, which appeal to me.


For my laptop(which is an optimus laptop) generally it seems that the time of the video matches the render times. So an 8 Minute HD 720 video with default bitrate settings would render in 8-10 minutes.

Thinking about it..would I even need a wireless network card for a desktop? Using powerline adapters+a 2nd router used as an access point, i usually plug my access point router into my laptop to get ethernet.


From reading other forums, doesn't seem like the 970 really requires a huge power supply. Plus I don't plan on SLI'ing. I decided to take off+change a few things

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/PP82Bm

Thoughts on this new build? I might add a cheap SSD later. Maybe I might be able to get a cheaper motherboard thats still decent.


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Heinrich Himmel
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 19, 2014 at 9:48:34 am

Andy, while the PSU is more than what is required, keep in mind that PSU and case can go into future builds. The rest of the parts cannot. That EVGA is considered Tier III. It is a decent PSU, but may not be the best choice if you stress your PC a lot.

On cases I've regretted every Case purchase I've made until I bought the corsair 540 air (I've always skimped on the case and it is essentially wasted money). Make sure you are happy with the case and that you would not mind using it in every PC you build going forward.

I cannot comment on your laptop based on times. Use something like GPUz to see what the GPU sensors say. On my optimus laptop, it is 0% usage. My i7 (4930K) just rendered a 45 minute movie in 22 minutes. Not many color edits, but lots of cuts and 4 cameras.

I've modified your build a little (feel free to use the EVGA PSU to save some money):

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/9N2sjX
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/9N2sjX/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($248.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI Z87-G41 PC Mate ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($81.97 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($68.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($91.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($51.99 @ Directron)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB Superclocked ACX 2.0 Video Card ($349.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Core 3000 USB 3.0 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($77.85 @ OutletPC)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1046.75
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-19 04:18 EST-0500

To Scott & John,

I will have to disagree with the two of you. I own both an i7 4930K and FX 8320 and there is no difference in editing HD footage between the two. In renders, the 4930K's extra threads pull it ahead, but no more than what is expected (just like it would pull equally ahead of a 4790). The two systems are built very similarly. The difference being the AMD has a GTX 580 while the Intel has an AMD R9 280x and the AMD has 16GB of RAM vs 32GB on the Intel. There may have been other differences accounting for the performance differences in your systems. Of course I overclock all of my CPUs. FYI, the 8320, 8350, 8370, 9370 and 9590 are all the same CPU, just different clock speeds. The 8320 is the best deal from AMD.


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Scott Francis
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 19, 2014 at 3:50:00 am
Last Edited By Scott Francis on Nov 19, 2014 at 3:53:41 am

I would respectfully disagree with the AMD assessment. I have an AMD 8350 and an Intel 4790, I have run pretty much the same system with the same video card and the i7 absolutely blows the AMD 8 core out of the water in Vegas, it really does. Frankly I was surprised by that myself, I have run AMD in my video rigs for about that last 4 years, and migrated back to Intel....and honestly I am glad I did.

Just my experience, not a promotion of one processor....

Best...

Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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John Rofrano
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 19, 2014 at 4:31:35 am

[Scott Francis] "I have run pretty much the same system with the same video card and the i7 absolutely blows the AMD 8 core out of the water in Vegas, it really does."
I have also read that the AMD can't come close to the Intel Core i7's for video processing. I would not recommend an AMD processor to anyone doing video work.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Dave Haynie
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 20, 2014 at 5:44:25 am
Last Edited By Dave Haynie on Nov 20, 2014 at 6:15:33 am

[John Rofrano] "I have also read that the AMD can't come close to the Intel Core i7's for video processing. I would not recommend an AMD processor to anyone doing video work."

I agree. I came to my current i7-3930K from the AMD 1090T. Sure, that's an older system than the current AMD "Piledriver" architecture.. but not necessarily in a bad way. Video is pretty dependent on floating point performance... the Phenom II 1090T six-core processor has six floating point units, versus four on the AMD FX-8350. I've heard claims the FX-8350 is a good match for some of the i5s, particularly if you overclock it (not recommended, but it can be done reliably if you spend lots of time and perhaps money on cooling), but probably not for gaming. Last I checked, most games these days were able to keep four cores pretty busy, but probably not eight. Maybe that's changed recently, but that was largely believed to be the case when I built my son's gaming PC a few years ago. Also the reason the X-Box 360 had three cores (six threads). Of course, with both X-Box One and PS4 being based on 8-core AMD Jaguar chips, maybe this is shifting.

The other big advantage of the i7-39xx/49xx (LGA2011) is that it's a much more capable chip wrt. I/O. All those cores can easily thrash the typical dual-64-bit DRAM bus, so this series has four 64-bit DRAM buses. And a chip-wide total of 40 PCI Express links, versus 16 on the Intel Socket 1150/1155 (usually accompanies by an extra 6 or 8 implemented on the I/O hub chip), or AMD, which supports up to 22 or 38 PCI Express links, but all implemented in the I/O and funneled through the 16 HyperTransport lanes of the AM3/AM3+ socket.

I will say that for video acceleration in Vegas, I have got a better bang/buck with AMD than nVidia. I believe that's at least in a bit way because AMD is dedicated to OpenCL support, whereas nVidia seems to treat it more as a hobby or necessary evil. Also, it's pretty clear that nVidia artificially slows select OpenGL and OpenCL operations, in order to differentiate consumer, professional, and computing versions of their GPU boards, all which use essentially the same chip cores. It wouldn't be a shock to find AMD doing this too, but so far, I haven't seen a documented case of this, where it's been pretty well proven for nVidia. I do not know if this is specifically an issue in everyday video rendering (aside from the Main Concept AVC issues, which are NOT, I repeat, NOT, the fault of either GPU vendor or directly the fault of Sony -- though Sony's certainly to blame for not offering a viable alternative), but it's very real.

-Dave


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Roger Smith
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 19, 2014 at 6:47:07 pm

I just purchased a Dell 8700 with an I7 and a GT 720 and 8GB of RAM. My rendering of a 1 hour hockey game in 1080p at 4M-8M bits is down to about 2-3 hours, depending on multiple single camera in the screen or all 4 cameras in the screen for coach review.

My question is what is the best way to shave that down even further. You said your rendering is about 45 minutes per hour video. I would love to get down to that. Should I look at the video card upgrade or put more RAM in? John stated the video card is totally useless for Vegas, but would the R9 290x be better than my GT720? Would it make that much of a difference?

Any help would be appreciated. I've posted this question in another thread but haven't gotten any responses to it.

Thanks.


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Scott Francis
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 19, 2014 at 6:53:10 pm

I would suggest more RAM, also make sure to "disable resampling" for the clips. If you are rendering to the exact same format as the original file helps as well (1080p-1080p etc). I said that I am getting about 45 min per hour to MP4, that is important as it can utilize the GPU during render if I choose that option in my render dialog box. You have to select to use openCL/GL/CUDA and such. Other formats (other than MP4 to my knowledge) do not get to utilize the GPU acceleration. One last thing, my UNDERSTANDING is that AMD card are working much better than nVidia at this point in Vegas...

Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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Roger Smith
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 19, 2014 at 8:58:57 pm

Thank you very much. This is my first year doing this and I'm feeling my way through setting up my workflow. It's GoPro cameras shot in 1080p/30fps, and render it to MainConcept Internet 1080p with the bitrate adjusted to 4000Kbps to 8000Kbps to keep the final file manageable for my coaches and families that want to download. Full games land about 2GB.

I'll check into the resampling, but never came across it before. If I should be rendering to a different template for better/sharper final product at about that size, feel free suggest something.

Some of my work is at http://tiny.cc/bardownmediayoutube. It's nothing fancy, but with the amount of games I'm doing alone I want to keep the editing quick and the rendering just as quick.

Thanks for any help.


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Heinrich Himmel
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 20, 2014 at 11:46:06 am

Roger, that GT 720 is not meant to be used for heavy GPU tasks. It is a basic GPU. While the Fermi cards are great, at this point they are considered antiques and will have a higher price (because they are nearly impossible to find new).

For overall performance, I would recommend anything in the AMD R9 series. Reason being that the extra vRAM is sometimes helpful. Render-wise, I believe any AMD R7 will pretty much max out performance. Look out for deals. Last week the Vapor-X R9 290x was only $229!!! That is the best version of the 290x you can find. For AMD cards, get Sapphire or Gigabyte. Those are probably the best (although there are others that are good as well) and stay away from reference design coolers.


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Sorin Nicu
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 20, 2014 at 7:13:00 pm

Fermi cards are plenty on eBay, cheap. Nothing wrong with an used Fermi card. I think that newer ATI don't work in MainConcept either...

http://www.mainconcept.com/products/sdks/gpu-acceleration-sdk/opencltm-h264...

AMD Radeon™ HD Graphics
6900 Series (6970, 6950)*, 6800 Series (6870, 6850)*
ATI Radeon™ HD Graphics
5900 Series (5970)**
5800 Series (5870, 5850, 5830)*
5700 Series (5770, 5750), 5600 Series (5670), 5500 Series (5570)
ATI FirePro™ Graphics
V8800*, V7800


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Heinrich Himmel
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 21, 2014 at 2:51:18 pm

You are correct that they are not supported, but something is happening. My R9 280x averages 25% utilization during renders with peaks of 48% using Mainconcept Blu Ray (note that I typically use Sony AVC for Blu Ray). However CPU usage is 100%! I think renders will speed up although not to the extent that the HD 6xxx series.

For comparison, using Sony AVC, renders take 60% of the time and GPU utilization is 35% with peaks at 42%. CPU utilization averages 30% with peaks of 35%. I always used Sony AVC because it is faster than Mainconcept even with my Fermi GPU.

Recently an HD 6970 was being sold by newegg on ebay new for $130. That is a good deal and the fastest Mainconcept approved GPU, but timeline acceleration works better on the newer AMD cards (not a big deal unless you pile on the effects).

As for used Fermi cards, that is pretty much the only option for them for a reasonable price.


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Sorin Nicu
Re: Building a $900-$1000 Intel+Nvidia PC. Should I go with an I5 or I7 for Sony Vegas+Gaming??
on Nov 20, 2014 at 12:01:12 am
Last Edited By Sorin Nicu on Nov 20, 2014 at 12:04:07 am

MainConcept does not support newer nVidia cards, based on Kepler (and Maxwell) generation.
See here: http://www.mainconcept.com/products/sdks/gpu-acceleration-sdk/cuda-h264avc....
"Boards with Kepler architecture are not supported."
Your GT 720 is based on Kepler.

Look on eBay for a Fermi generation card. I am using now a GTX480 modded in Quadro 6000, have used previously a Quadro 600 and Quadro 2000 with success, I think that a GTS450-GTX480 should work too.


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