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Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings

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Geoff Edwards
Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 22, 2014 at 2:54:04 pm

Hi

I have Vegas pro 10 and DVD Architect. I have made some good renders for computer use but I have not managed to get acceptable DVD output yet.

I have a lot of DV which has been copied from mainly SVHS tape to DV tape. The source DV is 720 x 576 Pal 25,000fps. The project is 10 minutes long and I have improved the original footage.

What are the best settings for this workflow?


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 23, 2014 at 7:54:17 pm

[Geoff Edwards] "What are the best settings for this workflow?"
You only have one option and that's to render to MainConcept MPEG-2 using the DVD Architect template for PAL. Then render the audio as Dolby Digital AC-3 and use the same filename but with the .ac3 extension. DVD Architect will know this is the audio for the video.

If the quality isn't goof enough, press the Customize button for the template and check the 2-Pass option. This will take approximately twice as long to render but makes the most use of the bitrate. If you need even more quality, increase the Average Bitrate but know that as you increase the bitrate, you increate the file size which means you can fit less video onto the DVD.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Geoff Edwards
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 25, 2014 at 4:11:28 pm

Hi John

Thanks. I have rendered the project again checking that I am using the same settings that you recommend. Results are still poor. Please see linked photo from my 32in TV.



The render is better but deteriorates with time into playback. Movement is subject to the worst distortion, otherwise is almost VHS quality. VBR was set to 2 pass and 8,000,000 max 4,000,000 min.

The 10 minute project takes an hour to render.


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 25, 2014 at 8:13:21 pm

Those are interlace problems. What do you have your Deinterlace Method set to in your Project Properties?

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Geoff Edwards
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 26, 2014 at 10:48:29 am

I have not set Deinterlace its set to none.


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 26, 2014 at 12:17:04 pm

[Geoff Edwards] "I have not set Deinterlace its set to none."
Then you've correctly identified your problem. Your VHS video is interlaced. You must select a deinterlace method to deal with it. I recommend you use the default which is Blend Fields. This will get rid of that horrible comb effect.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Geoff Edwards
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 26, 2014 at 12:33:48 pm

Thanks John :)

since I copied the VHS and SVHS to DV I thought the footage wouldn't be interlaced. Should I also deinterlace when I render to MP4?


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 27, 2014 at 12:43:29 pm

[Geoff Edwards] "since I copied the VHS and SVHS to DV I thought the footage wouldn't be interlaced."
Every one of those formats (VHS, SVHS, & DV) are Interlaced formats. There is no reason to think that they wouldn't be interlaced.
[Geoff Edwards] "Should I also deinterlace when I render to MP4?"
Yes, that is the proper time to deinterlace the footage. Keep it interlaced through the entire editing process and deinterlace it for delivery. If you also plan to create DVD's those should remain interlaced.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Geoff Edwards
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 27, 2014 at 1:39:53 pm

Thanks John

I don't seem to be able to highlight part of your post in order to quote.

Just one further question: "if you also plan to create DVD's those should remain interlaced" I am confused now. To get rid of the distortions when creating the DVD for TV use I had to deinterlace the project.


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 28, 2014 at 3:35:07 pm
Last Edited By John Rofrano on Sep 28, 2014 at 4:00:26 pm

[Geoff Edwards] " "if you also plan to create DVD's those should remain interlaced" I am confused now. To get rid of the distortions when creating the DVD for TV use I had to deinterlace the project."
No, you did not deinterlace the project. You selected a deinterlace method to be used whenever the media needs to be deinterlaced. That has no bearing on the project. Your project interlacing is controlled by the Field Order setting. Hopefully you have this correctly set to Lower Field First for DV/VHS media. The deinterlace method tells Vegas Pro how to handle interlaced media if and when it needs to deinterlace it (like when you resize it or render it to MP4). It will have absolutely no effect when rendering to an interlaced media like DVD.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Geoff Edwards
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 28, 2014 at 8:03:07 pm

Thanks John

I find it very difficult to understand but I think I am making progress :)

Geoff


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Sep 30, 2014 at 5:17:54 pm

[Geoff Edwards] "I find it very difficult to understand but I think I am making progress :)"
Feel free to ask more questions. That's how we all learn. ;-)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Geoff Edwards
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Oct 18, 2014 at 4:41:59 pm

Hi John

I think that I am making progress. My latest problem is that I couldn't render to a Dolby Digital AC-3 file as the option wasn't listed. It turned out I had the audio track muted!

I am getting a redder DVD than the MPEG4 render. DVDA Pro 5.2 previews the video similar to the MPEG4. Is there some sort of filter that could be applied to reduce the red? I am also surprised that the video has to be re-compressed in DVDA it is less than 7 minutes long.

I have viewed the DVD on another TV - a very good one and there is still a predominance of red.


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Oct 19, 2014 at 12:27:52 pm

[Geoff Edwards] "I think that I am making progress. My latest problem is that I couldn't render to a Dolby Digital AC-3 file as the option wasn't listed. It turned out I had the audio track muted! "
Glad you found that. Yes, what Vegas Pro does is hide the templates that are not appropriate so if you only have an audio track you will not see video templates and visa versa.
[Geoff Edwards] "Is there some sort of filter that could be applied to reduce the red?"
I would use the Color Corrector. Are you using your Video Scopes (Crl+Atr+2) and making sure that you colors are legal? The Vectorscope will help you with that. Also make sure that your luminance values are legal with the Waveform monitor. VHS tape is very susceptible to red color bleed so you might also need to use the Color Corrector (Secondary) to just desaturate the reds depending on if the whole frame is too red or just the reds are too saturated.
[Geoff Edwards] "I am also surprised that the video has to be re-compressed in DVDA it is less than 7 minutes long. "
If you rendered using MainConcept MPEG-2 using the DVD Architect PAL video stream template it should not be re-compressing anything. You must have not done this.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Geoff Edwards
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Oct 21, 2014 at 1:10:48 pm

Hi John

Thanks. I have double checked that I had used MainConcept MPEG-2 and DVD Architect PAL video stream template but DVDA Pro still recompresses the movie.

I have also applied the Broadcast Colour filter to the footage and re-rendered it. The playback from the DVD is still too red, although as before Vegas and DVDA Preview displays the colours (as adjusted by me) to my satisfaction.

Geoff


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Geoff Edwards
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Oct 27, 2014 at 6:07:16 pm
Last Edited By Geoff Edwards on Oct 27, 2014 at 6:40:04 pm

Just to recap. I have edited my footage and produced a nice video MPEG4. I have selected Single Movie in DVDA Pro 5.2 and previewing the project the playback is identical to what I see viewed by clicking the MPEG2 file on my PC.

Unfortunately, when I select Make DVD the result is not the same the colour is poor. The colour, viewing on TV is altered its excessively red. Something is also wrong in that the movie should not be recompressed by DVDA.

I have checked the DVDA Online Help file and my settings are correct in that I am using the MainConcept MPEG-2 encoder and the DVD Architect PAL video stream and the Audio has been rendered with AC-3 audio. It is stated that the project will not be rerendered by DVDA but it is, so what settings may there be that alter the behaviour of DVDA.


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Oct 27, 2014 at 8:11:21 pm

[Geoff Edwards] "Unfortunately, when I select Make DVD the result is not the same the colour is poor. The colour, viewing on TV is altered its excessively red."
Is your computer monitor calibrated? Are you color correcting on an external PAL monitor? (you should be ). If you don't want any surprises, you should be color correcting on an external monitor via firewire for SD delivery.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Geoff Edwards
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Oct 27, 2014 at 8:48:44 pm

Thanks John But I have improved my footage using Vegas Pro, not that it is of poor quality, it is very good SVHS. Alterations were made and viewed at standard DV size it is excellent. I should not have to "correct" it again for DVD output. And it would not be possible as my installation a 23 inch Dell high definition display would not be of any use. Perhaps I need to get on to Sony as DVDA should not recompress according to Sony. The footage and who knows what else DVDA is ruining. The movie is great on my PC. The DVD is crap on the TV and on my daughters 4K ready TV. I have also rendered a black and white version to check contrast and sharpness. That was fine.


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Oct 28, 2014 at 10:19:10 am

If you are watching it on an HD TV then I agree that you should not have to correct it again for DVD. If you are watching on an SD CRT TV then you would have to correct it again for DVD because CRT's and LCD/Plasma/etc. have different gamma and color response.

I guess the real test is how does it look when you place the DVD back into your computer and view it on the monitor you corrected it on? Does it look different than it did on the Vegas Pro timeline? That will tell you if the DVD process is altering it in any way.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Geoff Edwards
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Nov 1, 2014 at 1:47:21 pm
Last Edited By Geoff Edwards on Nov 6, 2014 at 8:58:02 pm

I have played the DVD on my PC and it looks similar to what it looks like on TV redder than the project on Vegas.

I found that with a higher bit rate than 9,00,000 DVDA will compress the footage. Subsequently, adjusting the project bit rate in DVDA results in a closer rendition of the project colour as played in Vegas but there is a degradation in quality. See photo of TV screen: Perhaps its a red herring but I have noticed that I have had trouble viewing high definition material on youtube - lots of pixellation so I replaced the video card. I have re-rendered the project. However, the maximum bit rate I set to 6,000,00 and burnt another DVD. Same result ok at full screen on my PC but poor with white patches all over the screen from the DVD same as the screen photo above.


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Joe McCord
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Dec 11, 2014 at 3:58:24 pm

Awesome info for Sony Vegas Users!- Thanks John!


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John Rofrano
Re: Rendering DV for burning to DVD optimum settings
on Dec 11, 2014 at 6:09:28 pm

You're welcome Joe. glad you found the information useful.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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