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Maybe You Guys Know This Problem

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Joao Souza
Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 4:24:56 pm

Let's assume I have a 1.30 minute video with 15 video tracks(clips/pics etc), two audio tracks, some effects and some track motion.Vegas takes 2.30 HOURS to render it.But sometimes it takes only 50 minutes so I guess there's something that sometimes crashes with vegas or something, or not maybe it's another problem.
I guess it's a win 7 problem cause even with only win 7 installed(no programs), vegas does the same
Do you guys have any idea of what could be causing that?
Thanks ;)

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Graham Bernard
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 4:31:57 pm

[Joao Souza] "Do you guys have any idea of what could be causing that?"
  • Anti Virus Scanning?

  • Auto Updates or Auto Disc repairs.

  • Re-boot often kicks out the Jams!

  • Cycling of GPU with CPU? If you have GPU enabled FXs then this speeds things up.

  • Heat and or rather, Fan<>Cooling system needing to be looked at. I've had a progessive heat issue that eventually led to a BSOD!

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 4:59:08 pm

- like I said even with only win 7 this problem happens.

- the same above.

- nope, re-booting or not, vegas always decides when it'll render faster or slower.

- no GPU.

- no fan problem.

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Russ Froze
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 6:09:18 pm

Hi, in the preferences tab under Video Dynamic Ram Preview max (MB) should not exceed the default value. According to Vegas programmers, it seems Vegas gets drunk on Ram much like Win 98 did. Sometimes I need to set the Dynamic Ram Preview max (MB)to a value of 0 for those long projects. Let me know if that works for you or not.
Russ Froze


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 6:16:20 pm
Last Edited By Joao Souza on Sep 2, 2014 at 6:26:02 pm

What's the default value?
I never changed that so I guess it's always default ;)
I googled and saw so many people saying(including in this forum) to set it to 0.
I did it still it'll take 2.30 hours to render so nothing changed.

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Russ Froze
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 6:40:40 pm

Ok, the default setting depends on the version IE it's 200 for 32 bit or x86 and 2000 for 64bit version. You can also reset the default values in the video tab. So to the problem. The media itself, on the timeline, is it all the same file type frame rate and frame size. Now for the encoding part, is there a major change between input and output codec, frame rate, interlace to progressive? And finally what FX are being used. A 2.5 hour render is not unheard of there is a great deal of math to do when blending layers or adding fx. Just trying to glean more info about the project and what is happening so as to figure the issue.
Russ Froze


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 6:44:38 pm

It doesn't matter what's happening there cause I got two different rendering times with THE SAME project so what matters is sometimes there's something affecting vegas rendering time.

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Russ Froze
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 7:04:09 pm

Ok fair enough. So it's time to rule out hardware issues or perhaps software config issues in win 7. In short try a different machine. Also are there third party codecs installed and vegas grabs one that is inefficient in working with Vegas.
Russ Froze


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 7:45:25 pm

Again:

Even only with win7 and no program installed, the same happens.
So I can tell it's a problem between vegas and win 7.
Is there any win 7 configuration/setting that could affect vegas rendering time directly?
That would be a start ;)

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Russ Froze
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 7:55:54 pm

Uhm silly me, Question are you rendering to the same drive as where you footage resides? If so don't do that.

Now let's get this straight.
1
You have a clean win7 instal with only Vegas version ? installed, nothing else.
Or
2
You have a win 7 instal where programs were uninstalled until only vegas version ? was left.
Which is the case 1 or 2.
Russ Froze


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 8:08:20 pm

- To the same drive and to a different one, no difference.

- 1

With a clean win 7 or when my puter had other programs, problem was the same.
Nothing I do/did affects/affected rendering time, nothing sped it up.
Sometimes it's faster but generally it's slow.

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Russ Froze
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 8:19:31 pm

No doubt a strange problem. I'm beginning to suspect a hardware issue. Have a look at task manager look under performance and see if anything is eating up ram or CPU usage.


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Stephen Mann
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 2, 2014 at 11:24:56 pm

I agree with Russ - you have something else running in the background that you are unaware of.

Do you get this when you run Vegas - AND NOTHING ELSE - after rebooting?

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 2:35:40 am

Do I get what?
I already said that happens even when only vegas is installed.
The only thing in the background is win 7.
When my puter had a lot of programs problem was the same so with only win7 or a lot of programs, problem is the same no matter whatever I do, no matter whatever vegas setting I change etc.

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Stephen Mann
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 3:46:46 am

So this computer does not have a browser or any MS Office programs installed?

Use resmon (Start, Run, Resmon) and click on the Memory tab to see how much resources Vegas is using. You want to see the "Commit (KB)" value. In fact you can double-click on the "Commit" column to see which processes consume the most. If the "% Used Physical Memory" is approaching 90% then you could be hitting pagefiles which would also slow your renders.

Experiments have demonstrated that Vegas runs best with *some* Preview Ram. The tests were done on Version 9 or 10, but 1 Mb was the sweet spot.

Vegas needs temp disk space equal to the project size is a good rule of thumb. The temp folder is on the same drive that Vegas is installed on by default. If this is an SSD, I would recommend moving it to a HDD. If you don't have enough disk space, the render could really slow to a crawl.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 4:22:29 am
Last Edited By Joao Souza on Sep 3, 2014 at 4:26:31 am

Thanks Stephen.
Only vegas installed.
Tell me how much should vegas be consuming in that "Commit" column?
While rendering it's around 340.400kbs.

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Stephen Mann
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 4:58:37 am

The actual amount is not as important as where it is in the list of processes. since your symptoms present differently over time, these are some things to make note of for comparison. The next time Vegas appears to be slow to render, look at these values to see if they are significantly different. It's just a data point.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 5:02:47 am
Last Edited By Joao Souza on Sep 3, 2014 at 5:11:34 am

I found the problem but it's weird to me.
One of the videos I have in my project was sent by a friend of mine direct from its cam, properties says it's a AVI file, it was the problem.I converted it to mp4 and added to my project then deleted the AVI version..................BOOM.............rendering time now is 38 minutes!
Should we all convert videos to a specific format before importing to vegas?
I mean is there a video format that works better/faster with vegas?
Now I can tell vegas likes mp4 videos ;)

Thanks guys for your time and patience trying to help ;)

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Graham Bernard
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 5:38:48 am

It's not that it's an "AVI" that makes long renders. It's what is INSIDE that AVI that is making for long renders.

AVI is ONLY a wrapper or envelop, a bit like the cover of a book. With the Book you get the Title, the Author the Author's photo and MAYBE a synopsis of the text on all this pages. I, as others here, have rendered using AVIs in almost realtime, sometimes even faster. You've got an AVI that won't. It is not the fact that it's an AVI. You really need to read further on the actual make up of these files, MP4 too! - This may also indicate why you're getting that hit and miss efficiency.

As you've been thanking us for our collective patience, do us and yourself a favour and put that AVI through MedInfo, copy the information back here.

So, this is NOT Vegas nor your system. It's the pressure you've put both of these under to deal with that AVI. As a Test, make project up of JUST that AVI, make your Settings to that AVI and Test-Render. What results do you get?

Lesson learnt here. Personally, I make sure I KNOW exactly what material I'm dealing with; asses just how much of it will be used in a MIXED project and if needed, CONFORM, by making a Digital Intermeadiate (DI) that media work easily with my project, and that means PROJECT SETTINGS. You've got to get this concept under your belt, otherwise you WILL revisit this again and again, and you'll come back here and ask the same question: "Why won't Vegas deal with this material?" Most of us that Shoot and Edit will make sure that that workflow is compliant throughout. Receiving material from a 2nd or 3rd or even 4th party source does require the editor to be more CONTENT-FORMAT aware than ever before. Ignore this and the Editor, you, will provide yourself with a World of Pain.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 5:51:54 am
Last Edited By Joao Souza on Sep 3, 2014 at 5:52:30 am

Yep I know AVI is a wrapper or envelop, maybe a container?
How do I put that AVI through MedInfo?
Do you mean in vegas click in that avi properties then MEDIA or GENERAL?

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Graham Bernard
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 6:18:20 am

[Joao Souza] "Yep I know AVI is a wrapper or envelop, maybe a container?"
Well, you said that Vegas doesn't deal with AVIs. Now that is NOT somebody who understands this process, so that is WHY I went to some length to explain it to you.
[Joao Souza] "How do I put that AVI through MedInfo?
Do you mean in vegas click in that avi properties then MEDIA or GENERAL?"

No, MediaInfo is a 3rd party freebie that will tell you/us just what is INSIDE Media - hence the neat name: MediaInfo. And here's the link for you.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 6:37:17 am

I didn't say vegas doesn't deal with avis(all avis), I was talking about that avi in my project.
Thanks for the link.




We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Graham Bernard
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 7:16:49 am

[Joao Souza] "I didn't say vegas doesn't deal with avis(all avis)"
Well, you did say this:

[Joao Souza] "One of the videos I have in my project was sent by a friend of mine direct from its cam, properties says it's a AVI file, it was the problem.I converted it to mp4 and added to my project then deleted the AVI version..................BOOM.............rendering time now is 38 minutes!
Should we all convert videos to a specific format before importing to vegas?
I mean is there a video format that works better/faster with vegas?"
So, from ALL of that I am left understanding that your appreciation is that we should NOT be using AVIs in Vegas and that we SHOULD convert to another Format. Consequently I could not continue, thinking that you were under the misconception that AVIs needed to be converted. AVIs can be GOOD for Vegas, it ALL depends on what is INSIDE them. You'd generalized from a single experience, and I didn't want you to think that that was the case - simple! - Now, if you had said, something along the lines of: "I understand not all AVIs are the same, what should I do?" But you didn't. And as result I needed to assure myself you had more of a understanding what Media Formats can mean. Do you follow now?

Cheers

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Joao Souza
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 7:40:13 am

Yep, you know texts are texts, people get whatever they want from them.
That's a nightmare when speaking in a different language, the way you say things in your own language sometimes is different the way they say the same things in another language ;)
Did my mediainfo pic help in any way?

We have so much time and so little to do! / Willy Wonka


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Russ Froze
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 7:18:48 am
Last Edited By Russ Froze on Sep 3, 2014 at 7:42:55 am

Now aint that what I said... are there any odd ducks on the timeline. Yup a jpeg avi is ok but the odd frame rate of 20 fps and unusual audio sample rate in that file will certainly throw a wrench into the works. I told you it's about math... that is what these programs do. Now look at what is being asked of the engineer who wrote this software. Kudos for Vegas for even trying to do the calculations and eventually succeeding. I assure you that programs used in high end productions would flatly refuse to do the math by simply disallowing the file. Programs / applications such as Final cut and Avid are used in production settings not because they are great, rather these apps are use because they will reject files that do not conform to standards and as such can not be used for broadcast. Back to the problem at hand. Throwing an odd duck on the time line results in the program having to do the math to match the desired output. Mainly readjust the audio and from 20 fps to match 30 fps or whatever the chosen output frame rate. So Vegas needs to interpolate audio bits and interpolate video frames that do not exist. This will take time a lot of time. I must agree with Graham Bernard that it would serve us all well if you were to read, watch or take a weekend course on the basics of digital media capture. Ask any question in forums and people will bend over backwards to help you on your journey. No question is too stupid, if the answers are not fully understood then ask for a different explanation and someone will be able to explain things in a manner that makes sense to you, we all learn in different ways. Still I'm pleased the issue has been resolved and something has been learned. Oh yes had the avi been a divx then unless the divx encoder is installed Vegas would not know how to interpret the file and would have told you that it can not imported. There are also ways of getting files into Vegas without trans coding but that is for another lesson. As for the problematic file, it could have been encoded to an avi again using one of the intermediate setting or perhaps an uncompressed avi.

Russ Froze


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Stephen Mann
Re: Maybe You Guys Know This Problem
on Sep 3, 2014 at 12:35:37 pm

What threw me off was that the OP said it was the SAME PROJECT that rendered differently at different times, which was why I was probing the O/S for anomalies.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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