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V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes

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Doug Jackson
V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 20, 2014 at 2:54:32 pm
Last Edited By Doug Jackson on Aug 20, 2014 at 9:22:57 pm

Anyone know how I can update the properties of all of my masking keyframes in Pan&Crop either by script or some other method?

I have been masking an event and have lots & lots (and lots)of keyframes so that I can track the motion of the person.
I set the Feather property to "In" and a 2% value before starting to add keyframes. So every time I added a keyframe by moving the mask, it replicates the properties of the mask. Now I'd like to change ALL of the keyframes and the properties of the mask to a different percentage value for feathering.

You would think that if you were to select all of the keyframes and change the value it might just apply to all of them, but as far as I can tell, the change only get applied to the 1st keyframe I selected (or maybe it's the last -- but it is definitely not ALL of them).

I've looked through the scripting API, and am not finding properties that match masking (ie Feather settings).

Thanks for any insights and/or tips.

Regards,
--Doug


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Graham Bernard
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 20, 2014 at 4:06:57 pm

[Doug Jackson] "but it is definitely not ALL of them"
Wow! - Re-proed here. Bummer..... I really can't see a way through this one?

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Doug Jackson
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 20, 2014 at 9:04:07 pm

Hi Grazie,

Well, I'm 'glad' it just wasn't me.

Regards,
--Doug


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Aleksey Tarasov
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 20, 2014 at 5:04:03 pm

Ask SCS (here) to add this function to Vegas Pro (and to their Scripting API, currently there is no way to do it)


Vegas Pro Templates


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Doug Jackson
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 20, 2014 at 9:02:16 pm

Hi Aleksey,

I will do so, and may I indulge anyone in the community who may also benefit from such a feature to do the same.

Regards,
--Doug


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Aleksey Tarasov
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 20, 2014 at 9:18:17 pm

Done!


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Norman Black
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 20, 2014 at 8:33:09 pm

Yep, this is the way it is, but I can understand why.

Say you have three keyframes with values, or slider pos, of 5, 10 and 15. You select all three. What do you display in the user interface for users to modify? 5, 10 or 15. The UI needs a new display value meaning, multiple different settings for that value. Regardless, if you enter a new value they could all get the new value.

Multiple keyframe selection in Vegas seems to be all about moving them together. Not setting value(s).


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Doug Jackson
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 20, 2014 at 9:00:35 pm

Hi Norman,

You display to the user nothing, blank out the field, just like when in an application where you select 3 lines of text with various font sizes. The font size goes blank.
This would be a helpful indication to the user that these keyframes have different values for that parameter and that if they choose to change the setting it will get applied to all of the selected keyframes.

Regards,
--Doug


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Graham Bernard
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 21, 2014 at 11:34:46 am
Last Edited By Graham Bernard on Aug 21, 2014 at 11:35:11 am

Added my Vote for this feature to be rolled-out.

Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge


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Norman Black
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 21, 2014 at 4:21:42 pm

[Doug Jackson] "You display to the user nothing, blank out the field, just like when in an application where you select 3 lines of text with various font sizes. The font size goes blank."

That works for UI fields with text entry. In this context what about the buttons for positive/negative mask. The buttons for the type of feather and the feather amount slider. Not to mention the mask itself. What if they differ between keyframes. What state should they be displayed in when multiple keyframes are selected.

I suppose one can hide disable those items in that state, but then come the inevitable support question about why has "..." stopped displaying. How many time has I read in forums the last year and a half about people saying FX not longer work and they has the FX bypass button clicked.

There are some hammers you do not want to hand to users to beat you with.


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Doug Jackson
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 21, 2014 at 8:09:41 pm

Hi Norman,


In the specific context of attributes to the mask to which I am referring, I don't see any that I might not want to apply a bulk change.


These parameters also have nothing to do with the location of the mask (which I don't want to change since I have spent hours carefully adjusting it in the multiple keyframes).

There are many ways for programmers to handle these types of scenarios.
Maybe the fields which have differing values get highlighted when you select the multiple keyframes.
Or for instance, if you have multiple keyframes selected and go to apply a parameter change, the user could be notified that it will affect all of the selected keyframes, with a big OK or Cancel option.
How about a 'tool tip' or maybe even (maybe as a last resort), an instruction in the Help file?

Sorry, but I don't get how adding this feature is somehow an additional support burden. If your logic was applied, I doubt there would ever be many new features rolled out because, well, they would be too difficult to support.

And besides there's always "Ctrl+Z"

Regards,
--Doug


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Phil Peacock
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 22, 2014 at 11:13:47 am

I will be adding my vote too. This has been an issue for me also in the past and I found myself begrudgingly amending every single keyframe and at the same time thinking that I must have missed something obvious! So, thanks for raising this.


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Norman Black
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 22, 2014 at 6:44:02 pm

I know what you are asking for and which specifics. I am just point out that UI design is looked at in an orthogonal manner. Just saying I only want to change certain ones does not cut it. If this were implemented then how you you indicate to the user which things are allowed to be changed and which not.

Your screen show shows text entry fields. I already stipulated in a previous post that there are mechanisms that can work for these types of UI items. How are graphic indications shown?
Consider these screen shots.
mask1.jpg
mask2.jpg

Two mask keyframes, both different. If your app allows you to change parameters of multiple keyframes then how do you display the differing mask values in graphical form. Which are mask, positive/negative, feather type, feather amount slider. Not an easy answer and it should be obvious to the user what is going on and what is allowed or not. Notice that the text fields panel does not need to be displayed. I personally normally leave it off for more screen real estate. One cannot ignore that fact that the text info panel may not be available.

I agree that a multiple select and letting us change a text entry field is about the simplest way to seamlessly integrate into the existing user interface design a way to change some parameters. One can always add a new dialog to let one do such changes.

This change is a special mode, but at design discussions, consistent orthogonality is a common theme. Special modes are not orthogonal and one then has to deal with different application behavior in a mask multiple select in the text and graphics views when something is changed in text or graphics.

But that is me and I do not have to deal with the average Joe user out there.

Remember my comment about the FX bypass button. That is a sticky button. It sticks across projects and across invocations of Vegas. People click that and then forget they clicked it, or expect it to not be sticky, and end up in the forums, or contacting support, asking why are my FX no longer working. Ctrl-Z don't help in all UI cases.

[Doug Jackson] "Sorry, but I don't get how adding this feature is somehow an additional support burden. If your logic was applied, I doubt there would ever be many new features rolled out because, well, they would be too difficult to support. "

Well if you take my statement to a reductio ad absurdum argument, I guess to can conclude that. Or turn my statement to 11, to analogize Spinal Tap.

I clearly said "some hammers", and yes EVERY feature added to programs has costs. Sometimes you anticipate additional support events, which are a cost of sorts. You always weigh cost benefit, make your best educated guess, and you may or may not go forward. It is a business trying to max profit after all.

You have to consider who you are selling to.

Look at Vegas 13. They added the new toolbar with the edit tool modes. The functions of this Vegas could already do with keyboard modifiers and/or shortcuts. So why add a new feature that does not add new functionality. Maybe because the existing functions not obvious but the new tool modes are.

All developers know users for the most part do not read help files, and the Vegas help index is pretty good, and they certainly do not read manuals. RTFM as we like to say...in private of course. ;-)


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Norman Black
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 23, 2014 at 1:09:21 am

Now that I think about it. I would implement this by doing...

When multiple keyframes are selected then draw a transparent window with hatch lines over the mask graphics display area. This makes it clear that those controls are no longer valid. If the user was clicking away and did not realized they multi selected, at least there is something very visual that something is different. They can RTFM to figure what the hatch means.

Then in the text panel the usual can be done. Conflicting values can be blank/empty entry fields and users can enter values that apply to the multi-selection. The user can RTFM to learn that they use the text entry panel in multiple selection mode.

The current UI is actually bad, IMO, in that when you have multiple selection, it provides no indication changing a value will not affect all selected keyframes. It is also not perfectly obvious which keyframe in the multi-select will change. Only with trial and error does one learn what is what.


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Doug Jackson
Re: V13 pro: Masking, Keyframes, Properties & bulk changes
on Aug 23, 2014 at 3:05:23 am

Excellent idea!


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