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Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)

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Carlos Silva
Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 3, 2014 at 9:56:52 pm

Hi,

I am a video enthusiast - far away from professional - looking for an average notebook for my average edittings using Vegas Pro 12. The overall features of the notebook are:

- Core i7 4700MQ Quad Core(2.4GHz Intel Turbo Boost 3.4Ghz ), 6MB L3 Cache
- Screen 15.6" LED FULL HD 1920x1080 IPS
- GPU GeForce GTX 850M (2GB RAM DDR3)
- Primary HD SSD 128GB

The point I am not confident is about RAM and HD, since I could be overestimating the hardware and paying more without being necessary:

a) RAM DDR3 1600Mhz x 1866Mhz ?

b) 8GB or 16GB ?

c) Secondary HD (1TB 5,400 RPM) or (1TB 5,400 RPM but hybrid SSHD 8GB SSD SATA 3 6GB/seg)?

I would appreciate any advice about these components.

Thanks!


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Norman Black
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 3, 2014 at 10:50:17 pm

[Carlos Silva] "a) RAM DDR3 1600Mhz x 1866Mhz ?

b) 8GB or 16GB ? "


a) RAM clock rate speed makes little difference even in memory benchmark programs let alone a general purpose application. A faster clock rate increases the brute bandwidth after initial access but unless the application reads very large blocks of continuous ram you don;t get much benefit.

RAM CAS latency is often more important than clock rate of RAM. This is the delay of the initial access. Super fast CAS ram, does not come in high density so you typically need four DIMMs to get the amount you want which has a penalty when you read the fine print. Most fast ram DIMMs are spec'd at a given speed when only one bank is filled.

I would say go with 1600 and look for DIMMs with a little faster CAS latency than typical. You pay a little more, but why not. The ultra fast CAS RAM is real pricey and not worth it unless you want every component in the system as absolutely fast as it possibly can be.

b) 16GB ALL THE WAY.

c) Unless you are editing uncompressed input, or lots of multi-camera editing HD is not bottleneck. I would say any generic 7200 RPM would do. I would avoid 5400rpm.


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John Rofrano
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 12:03:19 am

I agree with Norman. 16GB of the fastest CAS RAM and a 7200RPM drive. You do not want 5400RPM drives for video editing.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Norman Black
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 1:48:20 am

To expand further. DDR3 1600Mhz ram is also called PC 12800.
Standard RAM timings for PC12800 are 9,9,9,24. Faster RAM will be 8,8,8,24. Same Mhz bandwidth but faster initial/random access (less latency)

To use a brand name example
Crucial Ballistix Sport is standard timing
Crucial Ballistix Tactical is normally faster timings.
Crucial Ballistix Elite is their top line. Maybe faster, but certainly more overclockable.

I don't know the progression in other brands. I was just trying to give some example(s) and simplify the extreme tech being put forth.

Also with most faster RAM you have to use the XMP profile to get the faster timings over "standard".

My PC has 16GB of Crucial Tactical RAM.


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Carlos Silva
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 1:55:23 am

Many thanks for comprehensive explanations.
I'm going 16GB - 7200RPM.
By the way, does anyone know a software which provides details about installed hardware? Something like "MediaInfo" is to peruse/examine media.
Best,
Carlos


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Norman Black
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 4:16:25 am

http://www.hwinfo.com/


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Stephen Mann
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 4:21:37 pm

By the way, does anyone know a software which provides details about installed hardware?


I use Belarc Advisor - the free version tells you more about your PC, the installed software, the Windows updates and your network than you ever thought you should know.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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Scott Francis
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 7, 2014 at 6:43:26 pm

PC wizard is what I use...

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/pc-wizard.html

Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind's Eye Audio/Video Productions


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Dave Haynie
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 8:34:44 am

[Norman Black] "Standard RAM timings for PC12800 are 9,9,9,24. Faster RAM will be 8,8,8,24. Same Mhz bandwidth but faster initial/random access (less latency)"

Not exactly... "CAS" standard for Column Access Strobe, rather than RAS, which is Row Access Strobe. The random access time is the same as the RAS time (sort of), as addresses always go row, then column.

Why care? Because modern PCs are very good at optimizing things, and they always hit memory for many cycles at a time. Normal memory isn't read or written byte or word at a time, it's written a cache line at a time... 256, 512, 1024 bytes depending on the CPU.

So anyway, that last number, 24 clock cycles, that's the random access time, the RAS time, the same for each, and you pay that once per cache line read or write (at the most). The first 8 or 9 are usually the TCAS time (sometimes TCL, which means CAS latency, which is the same thing), and that's paid for a bunch of subsequent memory cycles, as long as the memory controller it hitting that same memory page, it can probably just run in TCAS time. Always, when it comes to a cache line read or write. So it's the first number that's going to be more of a factor in memory speed than the second.

FYI, the second number is usually the RAS to CAS time (how long after I'm allowed to assert RAS can I assert CAS), the third is usually the RAS precharge time (how long after negating RAS can I re-assert RAS). These factor in when you're calculating a full cycle time, mostly.

It gets more mathematical when you understand that you're talking about clock cycles... so is a faster DIMM with a TCAS=9 better than a slower one with a TCAS=8? For that, you have to count cycles. So a TCAS=8 at 1600MHz is a 5ns cycle... and so is a TCAS=9 at 1866MHz, that's also 5ns. If they're both 24 cycle RAS, the 1866MHz part will run ever-so-slightly faster than the 1600MHz part, but not so you'd ever notice it. Going from TCAS=9 to TCAS=8 at the same clock speed is always a win, but a small enough tweak you'd need some special tricks to actually measure the performance difference.

-Dave


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Dave Haynie
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 8:38:42 am

[Carlos Silva] "c) Secondary HD (1TB 5,400 RPM) or (1TB 5,400 RPM but hybrid SSHD 8GB SSD SATA 3 6GB/seg)?"

For video editing, I'd go for a 7200RPM drive without hybrid cache. The hybrid drives aren't bad for a main drive... I have one at work. Not as fast as an SSD, but they can fool you sometimes, since they cache the stuff you use the most. Kind of pointless when a single video file is larger than the cache, though, so for a "data" drive, no point.

On the other hand, the 7200RPM drive will reduce your drive's seeking latency. Sure, it'll make it a little bit faster, too, but you might get more linear speedup with a 3-4TB drive. The latency comes to play when you're shuffling between multiple files in a single project on that drive. For that, the faster, the better.

-Dave


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Carlos Silva
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 1:39:57 pm
Last Edited By Carlos Silva on Jul 4, 2014 at 1:47:36 pm

Thanks everybody for handy advices!

The options I have to pick up the 2nd HD are either (a) regular 1TB HD 5400 RPM (no options for 7200RPM) or (b) SSDH hybrid 750GB 7200RPM SSD SATA 3 6GB/seg.

Considering this scenario, in which I already have a 1st SSD 128GB drive and now I need to choose between a 2nd drive either (a) OR (b), what would be the best deal in your opinion?

Best,
Carlos


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John Rofrano
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 3:16:40 pm

[Carlos Silva] "(b) SSDH hybrid 750GB 7200RPM SSD SATA 3 6GB/seg."
If the hybrid is an SSD with a 7200RPM drive then that's what I would pick.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Carlos Silva
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 4:01:49 pm

Thanks guys!
With your help I'm going to pick the computer with confidence.
I learned a lot from all of you along this post.
Best,
Carlos


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John Rofrano
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 4:09:01 pm

Good Luck and Congratulations on your new computer. It's always fun to get a new computer. ;-)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Dave Haynie
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 5:50:51 pm

The hybrid 7200rpm drive is still a 7200rpm drive... just pointing out that the "hybrid" SSD part isn't terribly useful for a data drive, since it's never large enough for media files. I first bought a hybrid drive for the PC I built for my son two years ago, and there was a premium for those... and SSDs were kind of out of sight. Last summer, I built myself a new PC, and included a 960GB SSD... prices have been dropping. The 750GB hybrid in my office PC wasn't much of a difference in cost over a plain HDD, and for a C: drive it's quite nice.

Anyway, you want the 7200 over the 5400, no contest there.

-Dave


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Carlos Silva
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 10, 2014 at 3:05:30 am

Hi!

a) Instead of an internal 7200 RPM HD, would an external drive 7200 RPM USB 3.0 work as goog as for video editing?

b) By the way, does the 7200 RPM makes great difference over 4800 RPM throughout all the video production, or is it more related to just some parts of the process as rendering?

Many thanks,
Carlos


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John Rofrano
Re: Editing VP12 - Advice regarding RAM (1600Mhz OR 1866Mhz) and SSD + (HD OR hybrid SSHD)
on Jul 10, 2014 at 11:32:54 am

[Carlos Silva] "a) Instead of an internal 7200 RPM HD, would an external drive 7200 RPM USB 3.0 work as goog as for video editing?"
Yes, external USB 3.0 7200RPM drives work great for video editing.
[Carlos Silva] "b) By the way, does the 7200 RPM makes great difference over 4800 RPM throughout all the video production, or is it more related to just some parts of the process as rendering?"
Faster drives affect everything especially playback which you do constantly. You will get an overall performance boost because the video files are read from the drive so depending on how many files you're asking the drive to serve up at once, it can be quite a difference. Rendering isn't affected as much because rendering is rarely I/O bound... it's usually the CPU/GPU that is the bottleneck.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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