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RED partners with YouTube for new VP9 codec for 4k video

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Angelo Mike
RED partners with YouTube for new VP9 codec for 4k video
on Jul 2, 2014 at 12:31:47 pm

http://nofilmschool.com/2014/07/red-youtube-4k-content-open-source-vp9-code...

It's not that big a change from the 4k we've been seeing necessarily, but I think this whole partnership seems like an evolutionary step that could lead to more and better 4k videos on YouTube (yes, even though for probably most of us, including myself, 4k is mostly wasted on a 22" monitor).


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Norman Black
Re: RED partners with YouTube for new VP9 codec for 4k video
on Jul 2, 2014 at 5:54:24 pm

The whole 4K thing and internet delivery seems hype to me. I download some 4K samples showcased by Youtube and they do not even, or barely deliver Blu-ray HD bitrates and they have four times the pixels.

Of course the same can be said for Internet 1080 delivery. Poor bitrate.


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Robert Baker
Re: RED partners with YouTube for new VP9 codec for 4k video
on Jul 2, 2014 at 6:01:34 pm

I have some 4k (compressed) footage from a Sony AX-100. I should upload that and see how it compares when encoded by YouTube.

-------------------------------
R. Baker
Sony Vegas Certified User
Videographer/Editor Extraordinaire


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Angelo Mike
Re: RED partners with YouTube for new VP9 codec for 4k video
on Jul 2, 2014 at 10:54:45 pm

[Norman Black] "The whole 4K thing and internet delivery seems hype to me. I download some 4K samples showcased by Youtube and they do not even, or barely deliver Blu-ray HD bitrates and they have four times the pixels.

Of course the same can be said for Internet 1080 delivery. Poor bitrate."


Yeah, I think you're right. Even my undersell was an oversell. I guess I had more hopeful thinking than anything.


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Norman Black
Re: RED partners with YouTube for new VP9 codec for 4k video
on Jul 2, 2014 at 11:32:34 pm

A lot of material works at low(er) bitrates. TV/movies where people are standing around, moving slowly, and talking. Cable TV pushes bitrates down to cram as many channels as they can into their limited bandwidth. TV and movies are typically not as sharp as they can be at HD since most do not want that kind of detail in faces.

To me 4K is about hugh screens at relatively close distance, and/or pixel level detail. Not much material wants pixel level detail.

I watch a 55" TV from 10 feet. When I watch something like Planet Earth on Blu-ray I don't know if I would want anything more. I have even sat at half that distance. That is only an average Blu-ray. Put in something reference quality like Avatar or Pirates of the caribbean trilogy and holy c**p.

I compare everything to Blu-ray (unfair I know) and I always want more "D" to go with the "H" in TV and Internet. So when it comes to "UH", I am not interested unless there is a hell of a lot of "D".


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Dave Haynie
Re: RED partners with YouTube for new VP9 codec for 4k video
on Jul 4, 2014 at 5:25:59 pm

[Norman Black] "he whole 4K thing and internet delivery seems hype to me. I download some 4K samples showcased by Youtube and they do not even, or barely deliver Blu-ray HD bitrates and they have four times the pixels."

Blu-ray is certainly capable of way higher bitrates than many camcorders, much less online. That doesn't mean that every video necessarily benefits from a higher bitrate. And of course, once you're using a different CODEC, all bets are off.

That said, I haven't been terribly impressed with the state of HD video on streaming services... and in fact, I'm kind of in the Groucho camp on this one... I'm probably not happy with any video streaming at 4K that would work for me as a viewing client.

That said, Netflix claims they're happy with 4K at 15Mb/s, and Red's own RedRay player claims to deliver 4K they're happy with at 20Mb/s (and that's peak.. some material was shown at 10Mb/s)... and that's a dedicated media player, not a streaming format. Both use new CODECs... Netflix with H.265/HEVC and Red with their proprietary tech.

It's true that as you increase resolution, you need fewer bits per pixel... just as ATSC video was about twice the DVD rate for six times the information... and that's only if the broadcaster isn't transmitting additional SD channels on the same channel/stream. Cable (Comcast) has been dropping HD MPEG-2 down to as low as ~10Mb/s... few transmit at the original format received. Comcast has also been caught downrezzing... to 1440x1080 or even 1280x1080. Both of the satellite companies are AVC-only these days, and have also been known to downrez. And Netflix's "SuperHD" runs at around 5.8Mb/s peak (there are lower bitrate HD streams), for a 1080p24 video stream.

So, while I'm not about to say this is proper behavior, or that I like it (I don't get cable or use Netflix, I like Blu-ray), I'll claim that these things are establishing a level of consumer tolerance for crappy video. Just as VHS and DVD once did, in their own ways. Or TiVo. Your brain actually does adjust. In the early days of MPEG-1 video, I was watching way to much of it, and I noticed at one point I was filtering out the really bad stuff... you find it again if you're pixel-peeping rather than just watching a show. I also noticed that I lost that for analog over time... a few years back, I captured all of my 8mm material, just in case my lone D8 camcorder died... I was kind of surprised, after a decade of HD and two of digital, just how bad that format had been.

So you get someone relatively happy with HD at 6Mb/s, and show them 4K at 15Mb/s with VP9 or H.265 or some other more efficient CODEC, and they're going to be blown away, on the right screen anyway. I've seen some qHD (2560x1440) streams on my desktop (I have two monitors at that resolution, one 12" tablet at 2560x1600), and it looks damn good, from a viewer's perspective. Not editing it, not comparing that to an original source file shot at 50-200Mb/s either.

-Dave


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Dragan Bozorovic
Re: ED partners with YouTube for new VP9 codec for 4k video
on Jul 11, 2014 at 2:11:13 pm

I am sorry for you guys, but you just dont know what you talking about. Once you see the 4Kvideo resolution on a 4K TV or monitor, you are never want to watch anything in HD anymore.. Even on Youtube, on a 1080p4K monitor you will see the difference between HD and 4K content. All my video production is now produced in 4K. Go to globemedia.us and find some 4K samples and see for you self. Make sure to set the Youtube to highest resolution, if your internet speed and/or graphic card is fast enough... Cheers and Viva 4K!


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Jane Kong
Re: ED partners with YouTube for new VP9 codec for 4k video
on Dec 30, 2014 at 3:22:59 am

Agree , 4k will become the mainstream in the future. And now more ane more 4k cameras and TV or other relevant software appear to support this coming 4K Time.


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