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Sony Vegas 10 - no template for rendering MTS 1920x1080 50fps

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Jack McGee
Sony Vegas 10 - no template for rendering MTS 1920x1080 50fps
on May 18, 2014 at 12:17:27 am

Hi,

I have recently upgraded my camera from a miniDV (1080i 25fps recording) which outputs M2T files... to the new type SD card versions which record 1920x1080 50fps and produce MTS files.

I've been happily using Sony Vegas 10c for years which worked flawlessly with my M2T files. The camera output M2T files and after editing in Vegas 10, I would choose MainConcept MPEG2 HDV 1080-50I option to render which produced M2T files which I imagined had practically no quality loss from the original footage (as far as I could see when played raw on the Blu-ray player connected to large LCD). Thus I could keep this edited versions of the files as archived backup.

Now with the new camcorder (Panasonic HC-V210), the files produced are MTS at 1920x1080 50P setting. After editing in Sony Vegas...how do I render these without quality loss back to a MTS file? I cannot find any template in Sony Vegas 10c?

If I choose the MinConcept MPEG-2 option, there is no = sign showing for any of the options available since there is no HDV or Blu-ray option which contains 1920x1080 50P. The closed is either HDV 1080-50I or Blu-ray 1920x1080-50i 25Mpbs.

If I attempt to manually edit the HDV 1080-50I template and change the width from 1440 to 1920 and the frame rate from 25 to 50...it immediately produces an Error when attempting to render and fails.


I would really appreciate any suggestions on how to get round this. The only way I can think on now doing this is NOT to render the footage, but produce a Blu-Ray STRAIGHT from Sony Vegas. This means then keeping the original RAW unedited camera files as backup...where I would prefer to keep the edited file as an archive backup.

Thanks. Hope someone can help
JM


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 10 - no template for rendering MTS 1920x1080 50fps
on May 18, 2014 at 1:36:36 am

[Jack McGee] "Now with the new camcorder (Panasonic HC-V210), the files produced are MTS at 1920x1080 50P setting. After editing in Sony Vegas...how do I render these without quality loss back to a MTS file? I cannot find any template in Sony Vegas 10c?"
You can't. There are lots of acquisition formats that Vegas Pro cannot render to because they are acquisition formats and not delivery formats. Even the latest Vegas Pro 13.0 does not support rendering AVCHD 2.0 50p which is what your camera shoots.
[Jack McGee] "The only way I can think on now doing this is NOT to render the footage, but produce a Blu-Ray STRAIGHT from Sony Vegas. "
Blu-ray rendering in Vegas Pro only supports 24p, 50i, and 60i. Not 50p so you can' deliver your 50p footage on Blu-ray either using Vegas Pro or DVD Architect.
[Jack McGee] "This means then keeping the original RAW unedited camera files as backup...where I would prefer to keep the edited file as an archive backup."
Actually keeping the raw footage is the best quality too can get. I would archive your entire project folder with all of the raw footage and supporting project files (this is what I do). Hard disks are cheap.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Norman Black
Re: Sony Vegas 10 - no template for rendering MTS 1920x1080 50fps
on May 18, 2014 at 5:39:44 am

[John Rofrano] "Even the latest Vegas Pro 13.0 does not support rendering AVCHD 2.0 50p which is what your camera shoots."



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Jack McGee
Re: Sony Vegas 10 - no template for rendering MTS 1920x1080 50fps
on May 18, 2014 at 9:39:43 am

Appreciate your replies. I had no idea about this. I will start to keep the original files now.

I have now a major problem, how can I Sony Vegas 10.0 on my footage for editing? Can you tell me what render setting I should use in Sony Vegas for my 1080P 50fms footage? All the templates are all 50I, 60I or 24P, if I use any of them I get jagged lines on any movement footage. Can I actually use Vegas for editing and rendering such footage?

I plan to render to MainConcept (M2T) since its fast and then import into DVD Architect (I dont want to render it to Sony AVC which has the same 50i/60i/24p template options but it takes 10 times longer to render to AVC).

I really hope I dont have to ditch using Sony Vegas now with this new camera and be stuck to use some basic HP Writer software that Panasonic supplied. This would be disastrous.

Thankyou again and hope you can advise.
JM


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 10 - no template for rendering MTS 1920x1080 50fps
on May 18, 2014 at 11:27:47 am

[Jack McGee] "I really hope I dont have to ditch using Sony Vegas now with this new camera and be stuck to use some basic HP Writer software that Panasonic supplied. This would be disastrous."
No need to panic. As you can see from Norman's post, when you change the Frame rate to 50.000 (Double PAL) it automatically changes the Filed order to Progressive. I didn't notice this (good observation Norman). So you can make a custom template to render 50p in Vegas Pro 13.0. Unfortunate for you that Vegas Pro 10.0 doesn't have this capability so you will need to upgrade your software to match your new camera.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 10 - no template for rendering MTS 1920x1080 50fps
on May 18, 2014 at 11:08:46 am

Norman, How did you get the Field Order to be Progressive? My template says Upper and there is no way to change it.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 10 - no template for rendering MTS 1920x1080 50fps
on May 18, 2014 at 11:15:28 am

[John Rofrano] "How did you get the Field Order to be Progressive? My template says Upper and there is no way to change it."
Never mind... I see that when you change the Frame rate to 50.000 (Double PAL) it switched to Progressive. Very sneaky! :-D (man... i even answer my own questions) lol

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Jack McGee
Re: Sony Vegas 10 - no template for rendering MTS 1920x1080 50fps
on May 19, 2014 at 11:57:21 pm

Hi, you maybe interested to hear what I did in the end. Thankyou for your help and assistance in finally putting me on the right track. I stuck with Vegas 10 (32bit) since my plugins are 32bit also and things have always been tempermental I did not want to attempt upgrade. My system is 64bit but I have patched the vegas exe file to be able to consume upto 4Gb of ram.

1) I changed the recording format on the camcorder to from 50P to:

HA (17 Mbps / VBR), (1920 x 1080/50i) (which I believe is basically 25P)

2) Project properties in Sony Vegas are now:
HD 1080-50i (1920x1080 25.000fps)

3) I attempted different render formats but the best result was: Sony AVC = AVCHD 1920x1080-50i (this produces a M2TS file which I gathered I can archive as my edited footage. This file also played natively on my Blu-ray player via USB stick.

Other formats such as MainConcept etc...though rendering was quicker there were various issues present when watching the footage or inserting into DVDA

4) DVDA project properties were set to:
- Blu-ray disc
- 25GB
- 18Mbs Bit Rate
- 16:9
- 25.000 Interlaced (frame rate)
- AC-3 stereo (audio)

Note...there was no 25P frame setting in DVDA. Tests using the 24 frame rate resulted in jagged footage when movement filmed.

Blu-ray burnt - result similar or visually indifferent to original footage.

Heres some timed tests I did on 10sec HD footage filmed in HA (17 Mbps / VBR), (1920 x 1080/50i)


SONY VEGAS RENDERS
******************
Render Format + Time taken to render
**********************************

1MainConcept_BR_1920x1080-50i_25Mbps.m2t------------10sec (no audio recorded)

2MainConcept_BR_1920x1080-50i_25Mbps+Audio.m2v------30sec (had to manually selected Audio setting)

3MainConcept_HDV_1080-50i.m2t-----------------------20sec

4sonyavc_1920x1080-50i.m2ts-------------------------56sec

5Sonyavc_Bluray_1920x1080-50i_16Mbs.avc-------------56sec

6Sonyavc_Internet_1920x1080-25P.mp4-----------------45sec


DVDA Blu-ray creations
**********************
1MainConcept_BR_1920x1080-50i_25Mbps.m2v-----------Did not test because of no audio

2MainConcept_BR_1920x1080-50i_25Mbps+Audio.m2------12sec (Audio file auto picked up in DVDA)

3MainConcept_HDV_1080-50i.m2t----------------------45sec

4sonyavc_1920x1080-50i.m2ts------------------------13secs

5Sonyavc_Bluray_1920x1080-50i_16Mbs.avc------------Did not test because of no audio present in DVDA


Only the BR for file No.4 above played perfectly fine with smooth motion and no jagged motion - like the native file. Though MainConcept render was quicker in Sony Vegas. It took longer to convert in DVDA.


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John Rofrano
Re: Sony Vegas 10 - no template for rendering MTS 1920x1080 50fps
on May 20, 2014 at 1:45:29 pm

[Jack McGee] "HA (17 Mbps / VBR), (1920 x 1080/50i) (which I believe is basically 25P)"
Actually, 50i is 25 fps interlaced not progressive.
[Jack McGee] "Note...there was no 25P frame setting in DVDA. Tests using the 24 frame rate resulted in jagged footage when movement filmed."
That's because the original Blu-ray spec only supports 60, 50i, and 24p. Since you are now shooting 50i you can deliver exactly what you shot.
[Jack McGee] "1MainConcept_BR_1920x1080-50i_25Mbps.m2v-----------Did not test because of no audio "
There is no audio because you are supposed to render the audio separately as Dolby Digital AC-3 to get the highest quality for Blu-ray and DVD. I realize this doesn't help for your archiving purposes but is preferred for Blu-ray distribution.

Thanks for getting back to us with what you finally did. It's nice to understand how people are finally solving their problems given our advice.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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