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The move to 64 bit

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Antonio Salva
The move to 64 bit
on Apr 10, 2014 at 1:41:18 pm

Hey :) Iam a long time user of Sony Vegas Pro, first version 6. But I never needed to upgrade past ver8. I just started a new project with new cameras that use AVCHD(Sony NEx 10) and decided to move to 64 bit and brought an I7 quad core computer. Some of the project has already been started in Sony Vegas Pro 8. I would like to be able to work on these files with others that I will start in the 64 bit machine. I have an upgrade to version 9 also that I never used. Can anyone offer advice on what I should do? Can Windows 7 read Fat32 files? Do I need a new hard drive with NTFS for the new machine? Any advice on the move to 64bit and Windows 7 would be greatly appreciated. I also have an Nvidia graphics card on the new machine. Thanks for any help-Tony


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John Rofrano
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:06:49 pm

[Antonio Salva] "I just started a new project with new cameras that use AVCHD(Sony NEx 10) and decided to move to 64 bit and brought an I7 quad core computer. ...I have an upgrade to version 9 also that I never used."
So you bought a brand new AVCHD camera but you've upgraded to 4 year old software? This doesn't make any sense. If you bought a new camera you need new software. You should be upgrading to Vegas Pro 13 to get the latest AVCHD support. Where did you get version 9 from because you can't even buy that anymore?
[Antonio Salva] "Can Windows 7 read Fat32 files? Do I need a new hard drive with NTFS for the new machine?"
While Windows 7 can read FAT32 drives, the physical hard drive is probably very old technology and if you want to get performance out of your new computer, you should purchase new modern SATA III hard drives. Also drives have a limited life and using an old drive in a new computer is just asking for trouble. So while you don't need a new drive, and you can convert a FAT32 drive to NTFS, it is highly recommended depending on the age of your old drive.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Antonio Salva
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:26:43 pm

The version of Vegas 9 is actually a full version I won from Creative Cow many years ago. I don't like to use the latest versions of software because of potential bugs and glitches and never installed it. I'm from the school of if it ain't broke don't fix it. I finally decided after a new camera purchase to upgrade my whole setup. Many brand new drives come preformatted with Fat 32. But many drives I have are older. A little scary to hear that drives are susceptible to failure. How should I back up my files then? A Tb worth of DVDs? My new computer doesn't have SATA but USB 3 connections. If I format a new drive to NTFS will I be able to transfer media files to the new drive? Most important can I use Sony Vegas 32 bit on my new machine? Iam New to Windows 7 so sorry dir any ignorance. Thanks John for the quick reply-Tony


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John Rofrano
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:58:41 pm

[Antonio Salva] "I'm from the school of if it ain't broke don't fix it."
I understand, I'm the same way, but when you start working with newer formats that Vegas Pro 9.0 was not designed to handle, it will soon be broken and you'll need to fix it. Try Vegas Pro 9.0 first but understand that newer versions of Vegas Pro handle tough formats like AVCHD much better than old versions do. Just something to keep in mind.
[Antonio Salva] "Many brand new drives come preformatted with Fat 32."
If you are talking about external drives then I agree that many come format for FAT32. This will cause a problem because FAT32 has a 4GB file size limit and video files can easily exceed this limit. It's best to format all drives as NTFS when working with video files to avoid this problem.
[Antonio Salva] "A little scary to hear that drives are susceptible to failure. How should I back up my files then? A Tb worth of DVDs?"
I keep two copies of everything. So once I remove the card from my camera, I copy it to two WD My Password 1TB drives. This way of one drive fails, I have the other. I also have a 12TB RAID 5 for archiving projects to but that may be overkill for a non-professional. When I'm ready to work on a project, I copy the files from one of the drives to my internal hard drive and do all of my editing locally. Then everything gets archived to the RAID 5. That becomes my 3rd copy you might say but it's only the footage that I actually used. I specifically use 1TB drives so that in the case of a failure I don't loose too much data but you could buy 2TB or larger drives if you'd like. I pick up the 1TB drives when they're on sale for $59. I have a bunch of them.
[Antonio Salva] "My new computer doesn't have SATA but USB 3 connections."
USB 3.0 is fine for video editing. I thought you were referring to internal drives. Just make sure that the drives you purchase are USB 3.0 and not USB 2.0 which may be too slow.
[Antonio Salva] " If I format a new drive to NTFS will I be able to transfer media files to the new drive?"
Yes, you can convert the drive in place to NTFS or you can just format it if it is empty.
[Antonio Salva] "Most important can I use Sony Vegas 32 bit on my new machine?"
Yes, you can use 32-bit applications on the 64-bit version of Windows 7 but they will be limited to only 2GB of memory just like they were in a 32-bit OS. It is advisable to use the 64-bit version of Vegas Pro so that you can take advantage of all of the memory on your computer.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Antonio Salva
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 10, 2014 at 5:54:47 pm

John,
I had thought that Version 9 was AVCHd friendly. I guess I should try to upgrade to at least version 12 then. I just tried to copy files from my Sony Nex10 to the local drive of my new machine and it still will only make files that are just over 2 gigs. Is this a limit for my camera,because on the camera it only shows one file but when I go to copy it show multiple files. Since the local drive of my machine is Windows7 it should be NTFS, am I correct in assuming this? Thanks for all your help and prompt replies -Tony


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Dave Haynie
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 10, 2014 at 6:36:11 pm

[Antonio Salva] "I had thought that Version 9 was AVCHd friendly."

AVCHD support first appeared in Vegas 7. But it's been an evolving thing, just as AVCHD (and other AVC formats) have evolved. There's a chance that your camera's video will be handled ok in Vegas 9 (I don't know offhand), but it will be slower than in Vegas 12.

You could certainly TRY Vegas 9, given that you already have it. Some of that may depends on the camera's vintage... you don't get full AVCHD 2.0 support until Vegas 12 (doesn't always matter, but can't hurt). Is the new camcorder the NEX VG10 from 2010, or something different?

I also recall that Vegas 9 was occasionally flaky on 64-bit systems. Nowhere near as bad as the "preview" Vegas 8.1, and it had been awhile (I'm one of those idiots who upgrades pretty quickly to the new thing... nice thing, like most professional software, is that you can have multiple versions of Vegas installed at the same time.

For me, Vegas 12 was the first time AVCHD started feeling like DV again. An i7 and a good GPU also help make that happen.

[Antonio Salva] " I just tried to copy files from my Sony Nex10 to the local drive of my new machine and it still will only make files that are just over 2 gigs. Is this a limit for my camera,because on the camera it only shows one file but when I go to copy it show multiple files. Since the local drive of my machine is Windows7 it should be NTFS, am I correct in assuming this?"

Ok, where to start. SD Cards define the file system as part of the media spec -- that's how you know you can always interchange them. SDHC cards (up to 32GB) specify FAT32, and as a result, no camera can write more than 32GB in a single file. Most will write 4GB files, but I have read that some Sony cameras have a 2GB per file limit. There's a pretty good chance when you look on the camera, it's listing things by take, not by file. So you just see the one take on the camera, but it's broken into multiple files. Same thing happens on other media, like DVDs, to fit larger things within the confines of a limiting filesystem.

NTFS has been recommended for HDDs over 32GB since about the Windows NT 4.0 days, and certainly even for consumer versions of Windows since XP. Yes, some external HDDs come pre-formatted with FAT32. Since the SD cards use FAT32 as a universal format, they're following that lead to work across multiple operating systems. SDXC cards are actually formatted with exFAT (aka FAT64), but older cameras don't support exFAT or SDXC.

-Dave


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John Rofrano
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 10, 2014 at 7:48:44 pm
Last Edited By John Rofrano on Apr 10, 2014 at 7:50:48 pm

[Antonio Salva] "I just tried to copy files from my Sony Nex10 to the local drive of my new machine and it still will only make files that are just over 2 gigs. Is this a limit for my camera,because on the camera it only shows one file but when I go to copy it show multiple files."
You are not using the proper procedure. Don't every "just copy files". As Dave pointed out, this is a limitation of your camera card not your computer.

The proper procedure is to place your camera card into a card reader on your computer and open Vegas Pro 9.0 and go to View | Device Explorer and you will see your videos that are on the card. Use the Device Explorer to import your videos. It will not show you all the little files. It will show you complete video scenes and it will correctly stitch the 2GB files back together into the full videos that you really shot. As I said, never just copy files. When you backup the card, backup the entire AVCHD folder with all of the other files that contain metadata. This is important information that you don't want to loose.

Someone once described copying files off of a camera card has taking the tape out of a DV cartridge. You would never pull the tape out of the cartridge thinking that's all you need. Likewise you don't want to pull the files out of the AVCHD container that they are saved in.

If you save the entire AVCHD folder, you can go back to Vegas Pro months from now and use the Device Explorer to recreate the original video source and it will splice the files together again. If you don't save the AVCHD folder, Device Explorer will not recognize the files as needing to be joined and you will be left with a lot of 2GB files that, even when placed back-to-back on the timeline, may have missing frames.

[Antonio Salva] "John, I had thought that Version 9 was AVCHd friendly."
Yes it is, but each release gets better and better at handling this difficult format. So you really want the latest version for the best experience.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Antonio Salva
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 19, 2014 at 5:22:10 pm

John, after I import the files using device in Vegas, it saved it to the local drive, how would I then export it to an external drive? Am I supposed to copy my files to another drive first , then import into Vegas using device? I was always under the impression that is was better to have your media files on another hard drive and then render to yet another drive-is this a work flow from a time when computers weren't that robust? I was confused by one of your earlier posts on this thread, because you said you copy files to two drives, then in another post you said I shouldnt just copy the files to a drive. Could you explain your workflow? I have two external hard drives(USB 3) one I was going to use for media the other for backups. How would I go from editing on the local drive like you do and then transfer back to the external media drive? Finally, I'm working on a long project that will end up being an hour or longer, it will be too big to work on my local drive-when I make a final edit should I work on the local drive using nested projects assembled into the final edit? Thanks for all your help-Tony


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John Rofrano
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 20, 2014 at 2:02:19 am

[Antonio Salva] " after I import the files using device in Vegas, it saved it to the local drive, how would I then export it to an external drive?"
You can set the location by going into the properties and changing it. You can have it import anywhere you want. Having said that, you can certainly copy the files to another drive once you have imported them. This important part is that they are imported so that the file fragments get properly stitched back together.
[Antonio Salva] "I was always under the impression that is was better to have your media files on another hard drive and then render to yet another drive-is this a work flow from a time when computers weren't that robust?"
Yes, you want to keep your video files off of your OS drive where there is a lot of disk contention. Whether you render to yet another drive is up to you. Most renders are CPU bound so using another drive doesn't buy you much.
[Antonio Salva] "I was confused by one of your earlier posts on this thread, because you said you copy files to two drives, then in another post you said I shouldnt just copy the files to a drive. Could you explain your workflow?"
I back up my memory cards to two external drives. I do not just "copy the files" I copy the entire AVCHD folder from the card to two separate drives as backup. Then when I'm ready to use those source files in a project, I import them to my project drive using the Device Explorer. At no time am I copying the individual video files. I'm always working with the entire AVCHD card structure. I also archive all of my projects to a third drive when they are complete.
[Antonio Salva] "Finally, I'm working on a long project that will end up being an hour or longer, it will be too big to work on my local drive-when I make a final edit should I work on the local drive using nested projects assembled into the final edit?"
It sounds like you need a larger local drive. I would buy a 1TB or 2TB USB 3.0 drive and work on that if your local drive isn't big enough (assuming your computer supports USB 3.0) It's best to keep the whole project on one drive. Make sure you buy one with 7200RPM drives.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Antonio Salva
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 22, 2014 at 4:16:24 pm

John, thank you for all your help : ) I think I finally understand your workflow for capturing the files. One question though, when you say local drive, do you mean the C drive? Do you import your files to the C drive to work on a project, then export back to a media drive? Or is the local drive you describe another media drive that is not your C drive. Last, I imported the files for a project to the local c drive, thinking this is what you described, how would I export these files keeping the "stitching" in place? Just save the project to another file and check include media? Thanx again for all your help. You've got me back on track in the world of Vegas?


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John Rofrano
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 23, 2014 at 2:49:38 am

[Antonio Salva] "One question though, when you say local drive, do you mean the C drive? Do you import your files to the C drive to work on a project, then export back to a media drive? Or is the local drive you describe another media drive that is not your C drive."
When I say "local drive" I really mean my internal video editing drive. My Windows PC is set up with a C: drive that contains OS and programs, a D: drive that contains stock media and music, and an E: drive which contains my current Video projects. On my Mac Pro I have a drive for / the root filesystem for OS and Applications, another drive for /Media which contains stock media and music, and a dive for /Video which is RAID 0 that I use to edit on. So both my PC and my Mac are set up the same way with three drives. Video files are copied to my E:\Video drive on my PC or /Video drive on my Mac. Never to the OS drive (C:).
[Antonio Salva] "Last, I imported the files for a project to the local c drive, thinking this is what you described, how would I export these files keeping the "stitching" in place? Just save the project to another file and check include media? "
Yes, that would work. Once the files have been stitched together, you can copy them any where you want by an means you want. The important thing is that you stitch them together by importing them from the Memory Card or a folder that contains the content of the memory card, and that you do not copy them directly from subfolders on the memory card. If you keep all of the files for a project under one main folder, then you can copy that folder to any drive you want to work on it or archive it.

Just to clarify. I now have two ways of working: Sometimes I will copy my projects onto my internal Video drive to work on them. Other times I will use external USB 3.0 drives to work on them. I only started using the USB 3.0 drives because they are now fast enough to give me the speed that I need to edit. I would have never done this with a USB 2.0 drive because they are too slow. One thing that will make me use a USB 3.0 drive is if I need portability. If I'm working on a project that I want to edit on both my desktop and my laptop, I will use a USB 3.0 drive. If it's a project that I'm only working on my desktop computer, I will use my internal Video drive.

Hope that helps,

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Dave Osbun
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 10, 2014 at 6:14:59 pm

I'm sure that your new computer has SATA connections. They are INTERNAL. You are probably thinking about eSata, which is external. SATA has been the defacto interface for internal drives for quite a few years.

I own a NEX-VG10 and upgraded from Pro 8 to Pro 12 so I could easily edit my video. I'm extremely happy with my upgrade decision.

Intel i5 3570K Ivy Bridge 3.40GHz quad core
Asus P8Z77V-LK
16gb RAM
ATI Radeon HD7850 2gb
Crucial M4 SSD + Seagate Barricuda 7200rpm
Windows 7 Pro 64


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Antonio Salva
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 10, 2014 at 8:17:06 pm

Thank you everyone for your insight, I plan on upgrading Sony Vegas when I get the chance. Thanks for alerting me to the fact that the Sony Nex10 only shows "takes" and not files and explaining file structure within cameras. Thank you for also explaing how to copy and save the files, I always had small gaps and wondered why. Thank you everyone for your help as I move into the"modern age" any other advice is greatly appreciated, was the nvidia graphics card a bad choice? It was the only one they offered for my laptop that wouldnt takes weeks to arrive. Thanx again everyone-Tony


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John Rofrano
Re: The move to 64 bit
on Apr 11, 2014 at 10:26:58 am

[Antonio Salva] "was the nvidia graphics card a bad choice?"
That depends on what architecture it uses. If it's a new Kepler based card it won't work that well. If it's an older Fermi card it will work better. We've been benchmarking graphics cards and have found that the ATI/AMD cards work bit better with Vegas Pro because Vegas uses OpenCL and NVIDA's OpenCL implementation isn't that good. Of course, laptops don't give you much of a choice so just work with what you got.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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