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Judder During Animation In 24p - Will 60i Be Better?

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Kell Hymer
Judder During Animation In 24p - Will 60i Be Better?
on Mar 30, 2014 at 5:07:00 am

Hello All,

I am using Digital Juice's Toxic Wedding template (see link) in Vegas Pro 12.

http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=2489

If you scroll almost to the bottom you will see the project titled "Cherished Memories". The video here shows lots of panning and areas to drop still images/video. There are also many straight lines. Having a trivial, yet growing knowledge of video, I set my blu-ray project to 24p and found that these animations looked horrible in 24p. The animations have judder and the decorations hanging from the ceiling in the video have the appearance that frames are being skipped. In other words it is not smooth at all.

The source animation is 29.97 fps progressive. Vegas renders of 29.97 progressing and 60i looked great on my PC while 24p looked just like it did on my TV when played from the Blu-Ray disc.

I have read a significant amount of contradictory things online. Despite confirming it on a PC monitor, will 60i on the BD disc make these animations look smooth on my 1080p tV? Will the picture quality of the rest of the film suffer because it will now be interlaced and not progressive?

Please note that the web video in the link above is low quality but there is judder there. The judder I see in 24p is much worse.

Thank you.


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John Rofrano
Re: Judder During Animation In 24p - Will 60i Be Better?
on Mar 30, 2014 at 11:59:21 am
Last Edited By John Rofrano on Mar 30, 2014 at 11:59:44 am

[Kell Hymer] "Despite confirming it on a PC monitor, will 60i on the BD disc make these animations look smooth on my 1080p tV?"
Yes. These animation were made at 29.97 fps. You can't expect them to look as fluid at 24 fps because you are throwing 4 frames away every second. That's why it looks jumpy (because of the missing frames).
[Kell Hymer] "Will the picture quality of the rest of the film suffer because it will now be interlaced and not progressive? "
No, because if the source was progressive, then the two interlaced fields will contain exactly the same information so it won't look any different. This is how Hollywood movies are shown on TV all the time.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Kell Hymer
Re: Judder During Animation In 24p - Will 60i Be Better?
on Mar 31, 2014 at 12:25:30 am

Thank you! My final video project contains a number of these animations. Each animation was rendered as a separate Vegas project and then placed into the final video. To maintain quality, I am re-building each of the animations in 60i.

This has been an enlightening experience for me as I only edit home videos for fun and decided to take my videos to the next level. As I have no formal training, I previously never paid any attention nor knew anything about frame rates. The source animations are 29.97p. To match my final project, I changed the animations to 60i. I thought I was losing my mind or something was wrong with Vegas or Digital Juice. After I made the change to 60i I noticed occasional flashes/glitches. For example, some of the text flashed. I slowed it down and viewed it frame by frame and the text was actually flipping horizontally for a single frame!

I opened the track motion (keyframe) editor and after nearly 2 hours of staring at it, figured out this was only happening when an animation was rotating over the 360 or 180 degree point on any axis. My mind was blown until I correlated that the interlacing caused this effect when I changed the video from progressive to 60i. I know that interlacing shows only half of the data onto each frame. Apparently one frame had rotated beyond 360 degrees while the next one still had not caught up, which caused the issue. To fix it, I had to go to the frame where the error was present and then edit the axis rotation point on the subsequent frame to reflect the same degree on the axis as the prior frame. This completely fixed the issue and the video looks great now.

Wow...what a learning process and a ton of work for my wedding video that I have been working on for say...eh...5 years! however, I completely enjoy this. The forums here have been a great help. Thanks!


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John Rofrano
Re: Judder During Animation In 24p - Will 60i Be Better?
on Mar 31, 2014 at 12:32:01 am

Glad you got it all sorted out and you're having fun video editing. It's a very creative process but it does take some technical depth to understand the inner workings. Don't get discouraged and keep asking questions. That's how we all learn. :-)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Kell Hymer
Re: Judder During Animation In 24p - Will 60i Be Better?
on Apr 3, 2014 at 1:11:00 am

Thanks a ton. By way of an update, I burned my project to Blu-Ray using 60i AVC. The animations look MUCH smoother. I notice the picture is subtly not as sharp or clear as the progressive (24p), but it certainly flows nicer.

I initially took the 30fps progressive animations and rendered to 24p which was omitting 6 frames a second which was the cause of the judder or skipping effect. If, for example, the source animations were in 24p and I rendered to 24p, this effect would be significantly reduced. However, reading online it appears that 24p is known for not being as smooth as interlaced and it presents certain leaning artifacts. Interlaced has it's limitations as well. With the 30fps progressive source material I would really like to get the smoothest picture possible with the sharpness and clarity of progressive images. However, to do this, I would have to render to 30p which is not supported by Blu-Ray. Why in the world is 30fps, progressive not supported on Blue-ray? I don't see it boosting the data rate to unmanageable levels so what's the deal?

I will Google this topic some more, but it would certainly be nice for more options on Blu-Ray.


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