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DVD burning going ridiculously bad...

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James Strecker
DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 3:40:21 am

Hey, guys.

You have all been of great help in the past, so I am hoping you can figure out this issue for me...

I am simply trying to burn a 38-minute movie I made to a DVD.

First, I saw that the DVD would only hold 4.7 GB, so I rendered the movie over and over again until I finally found a combination that would wind up being smaller than that: 1280x720 WMV format. The file wound up around 3 GB. It wasn't as HD as I would have liked, but it would do.

I started a new file in DVD Architect Studio and added the file. It got all the way through the preparation and burning before it finally told me the file type was an "unsupported format." So I basically wasted a DVD because it did burn it, technically, but it can't be played in my computer or any DVD player.

So I started over. I made sure I had all the settings right, since I kind of skimmed it over the first time, but it still did the same thing. Another DVD wasted.

I Googled the issue and found that I shouldn't have rendered it as WMV, that I should go with "the DVD burning templates in Vegas' Render To options." But those didn't exist (I'm using Movie Studio HD Platinum 11). So I went with the route of choosing "Make Movie" in Vegas itself, instead of through DVD Architect Studio. My DVD got all the way through burning, and it seems to be working fine, but it burned it in what appears to be 60fps rather than 24fps like my video is. I restarted, checked all the settings: it was set to 24fps. I tried again. Burned another DVD that was "way too smooth" and had a bunch of "ghost frames" throughout like it had still tried to make everything 60fps.

I have wasted several blank DVDs trying to make this work, and I am really considering throwing my computer out the window. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would be forever grateful. This SHOULD be as simple as "wanna burn a DVD? Ok, click here...it's done!" But it's not, and I don't know why.

I just wanna put my movie on a DVD. Is that too much to ask?

Thanks, y'all.

James

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Lewis Costin
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 4:12:11 am
Last Edited By Lewis Costin on Mar 15, 2014 at 4:21:29 am

Hi James,

First I should clarify whether you're trying to actually burn a DVD-Video (a disc that will playback on standard DVD players and the like) or whether you're simply wanting to burn a file to a disc (which will only be played back by a PC or a device that can read the format)?

I'm going to assume you're wanting a standard DVD-Video, so I'll tell you the process I use.

The preset that that guide told you about lies under File > Render As > MainConcept MPEG-2. This is the format all DVD-Videos are in (so once you've exported your movie as this, there should be no further conversion required). Under this format you should see a list of presets. You're either gonna want the "Program stream PAL widescreen" or the "Program stream NTSC widescreen" option (unless your movie is not 16:9 or wider), and then you're probably gonna want to customize it. So select one depending on whether your in a PAL/NTSC region and hit customize.

The two options you probably want to change are your framerate and your field order. If your project is indeed 24p, choose 24fps and progressive respectively.

Once you've exported it, this .mpg file should be able to be used by DVD Architect to create a DVD-Video.

EDIT: Just realized you said you're using Movie Studio HD Platinum 11, which I have no idea about unfortunately. I'm guissing for some reason MainConcept is missing.


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 4:37:27 am

Thank you! I am able to access these options and have customized the render like you said. Do I need to do video and audio separately? Or will DVD Architect Studio take the video (video+audio as one file) and break it apart itself?

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 1:32:35 pm

[James Strecker] "Do I need to do video and audio separately?"

If your version allows you to it, that is the ideal way. If there's an option for AC-3 audio, that's the one to select. Make sure to give it the same name as the video file. That way, when you load the video file into Architect Studio, the audio will automatically follow.
I use Vegas Pro and DVD Architect Pro but the steps should be the same so try it and see. Good luck.


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 5:13:44 pm

Hi, I tried these settings and they imported into DVD Architect Studio just fine, but I am having two problems:

1. The quality of the video is pretty awful. I'm not just talking about the frame size, I know I can't get away from that (as I understand it), but I mean that it is very pixelated and has that kind of "silhouette of the previous shot" effect going on throughout it. This isn't going to be acceptable with the company I am making the film for.

2. DVD Architect Studio won't let me change the output framerate to anything but 30fps. The film is at 24fps, so I don't want to waste more time and effort burning this DVD only to pop it in and watch it be all "ghost frame"-ish again.

Ugh. This is way more difficult than it should be...

Thanks for your ongoing help, guys.

P.S. I am definitely using DVD-RWs now.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 5:49:02 pm

Make sure that you're using either the DVD Architect 24p NTSC video stream or DVD Architect 24p NTSC Widescreen video stream MPEG-2 preset when you're doing your render from Vegas.
If you can, for that short of a video use a custom bitrate setting of 8,000,000 for your video.

DVD Architect doesn't know any better and will burn whatever is give to it.


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 5:51:35 pm

I am trying a 2-pass render from Vegas right now. There are no DVD Architect Studio presets in the render options, but I just went with what I did before plus a 2-pass. Hopefully it will look better...

Also, it's not the Vegas render that I can't change the frame rate of, it's the DVD Architect Studio settings I can't change from 30fps.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:10:45 pm

This is very difficult to troubleshoot over the net, especially when I use Vegas Pro and DVDA Pro and you're using Movie Studio versions :(

In my opinion, a 2-pass render for a 38 minute video is a waste of render time.

When I go File- Render As I get the following screen.



I then click the Custom button and then the Video tab so that I can change the bitrate to a Constant value of 8,000,000. This can be saved as a preset if you want to.




"Also, it's not the Vegas render that I can't change the frame rate of, it's the DVD Architect Studio settings I can't change from 30fps."

That option isn't available even in DVDA Pro so don't worry about it. DVDA knows if it's a 24p file and adjusts accordingly.

I highly recommend searching for 24p in the Vegas online help menu and see what it says. Good luck.


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:15:44 pm

My sincere apologies, I somehow skimmed over this DVD Architect option when looking at the render settings. I have been able to do pretty much exactly what you show in the images (thank you so much for the visuals). My only question now is, if I have a 1280x720 original size to my video, do I want to go with 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio?

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:28:36 pm

Glad that the images helped you.

For 1280 x 720 source video, you want to go with 16:9 mode.
Be advised that this will not perfectly match a 720 x 480 widescreen video in that you will be left with very small black bars on the sides on your video. The simple workaround for this is to check the Stretch video to fill output frame size (do not letterbox) option as shown below (just above the cursor).



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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:29:51 pm

Alright, thanks so much for your help. I'll let you know if something else goes wrong. :)

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:31:39 pm

My pleasure. Always glad to help.


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:41:44 pm

It still looked pretty bad, not much change. I am trying again with the highest constant bit-rate available, which was something like 9,800,000.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:47:12 pm

That's too high of a bitrate and doesn't allow any room for your audio file. The result will be a DVD that may skip badly. I've authored thousands of DVDs over the years and have never gone over the 8,000,000 limit.

What was the quality of your source video?
Can you upload a small piece to a sharing site such as Dropbox to let us play with it and see how it turns out?


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:50:16 pm

What file type should I render it at for you? Or do you want just a short clip from the source footage? That would probably work. It is .m2ts footage.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:51:47 pm

Source footage please. Thanks.


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:53:08 pm

Okay, hopefully this works.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105884782/Tape%2016%20-%203%20-%20North...

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:54:42 pm

It is mostly text that gets way too distorted. I have titles throughout the film. It's harder to see the pixelated-ness of the actual footage, but when text comes up, it looks awful. So I would suggest test renders that include text to see what I'm coming up against personally.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 6:57:30 pm

I got your clip.
Can you give me an example of the text you're using (i.e. font, color and size).


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 7:00:27 pm

White text, about 12 px in size, Copperplate Gothic Lite (the official branding font for the company the film is being made for).

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 7:34:57 pm

James, the file is finally ready. I had to go looking for that font and I'm on a slow DSL line here but here it is. I used the settings mentioned earlier in this thread. It looks good to me but I'll let you be the final judge of it. FYI, not that it makes a difference but the source video is 1440 x 1080.
Tape 16 - 3 - North Marion 3.mpg


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 16, 2014 at 4:52:49 am

You're right, my bad about the frame size. That is relatively the same result I'm getting, and under normal circumstances that would be fine, I am just worried about if someone watches this on an HDTV and/or through an HDMI cable and sees how pixelated it really is. I have seen higher resolution images and text in DVD movies before. Why is it that I *have to* use these settings for burning to a DVD? I guess I will do it if it's the only way. I just wish it was higher definition. I swear DVDs normally look better than this. I know it's not Blu-ray by any means. Just confused, I guess.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 16, 2014 at 6:10:31 pm

So everything seemed to work out fine until the end, when it gave me the same old "unsupported file type" message. Maybe because I used an mp3 for the sound. But I only did so because I tried to render audio as AC3 like you suggested and DVD Architect would not recognize the file and allow it to be drag-and-dropped onto the timeline...

I am at a loss here...

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 16, 2014 at 6:32:18 pm

...I looked this up on other threads here and it seems people have had this problem in the past. However, it got resolved by rendering the audio as .wav instead of .ac3, but when I tried this, it still gives me the "unsupported format" error message. It shouldn't have to do with the video since I followed your previous instructions. Ugh.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 16, 2014 at 8:09:59 pm

Okay, I have now tried every audio filetype available in Vegas. DVD Architect Studio gives me the "unsupported format" error every. Single. Time. What am I doing wrong here?

Another thread in this forum from a few years ago lists these options as ones DVD Architect Studio will accept:

Audio: .aa3, .ac3, .aif, .ogg, .oma, .sfa, .vox, .w64, .wma

None work. At least, seemingly. The video filetype could be the problem, but I have rendered it exactly as instructed.

I appreciate the help so far very much. But it looks like my adventure is not over here...

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 16, 2014 at 8:42:27 pm

A bit more info...

I noticed for the first time that, when I go to burn the DVD, the notices say:

"The video on track 2 'Video' will be recompressed."

Is this bad? It is the only thing listed with a yellow icon rather than a blue "i" icon like I get for the rest that concern the audio and menu actions.

Could this have anything to do with my issue?

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 16, 2014 at 10:03:19 pm

James, my sympathies as I was really hoping that this video would be done by now :(

Have you ever installed ANY kind of codec pack, specifically the one from K-Lite as it's known to cause grief to Vegas users everywhere.

I have no idea why your AC-3 file was rejected as this is what Vegas likes to see. You did the right thing trying a WAV file as that's also acceptable.
The only thing I can think of is to do a reinstall of DVD Architect (and possibly Vegas too but try DVDA first) and see if that fixes things.

"I noticed for the first time that, when I go to burn the DVD, the notices say:
"The video on track 2 'Video' will be recompressed."
Is this bad?"


It means is that, for whatever reason, your rendered video did not meet the specs required for DVD Architect.
Sony has an article on this on their Knowledge Base page at Avoiding recompression in DVD Architect.
I've had this happen to me a few times over the years and when I go back and check my render settings, I've done something wrong somewhere.

Please post screenshots of your render settings, both video and audio. If there are multiple screens for either one, please post all of them. One way or another I'm determined to get to the bottom of this problem :)

You were concerned about the render quality on your final product. Your source footage is HD while DVD is only SD so unfortunately you will loose a fair amount of quality and there's not much that you can do about it.

If your clients want an HD version and you have it as an option , use the Internet 1280x720-30p template found under Sony AVC/MVC type and give it to them on a USB stick or burn it to a DVD but tell them it's designed for computer playback, not on a DVD player.
I rendered out the file you gave me using this template. It's at Tape 16 - 3 - North Marion 3.mp4


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 16, 2014 at 10:22:26 pm

Thanks, Mike.

I will grab some screenshots in a little while once my computer is done with a different render it is working on right now for something completely different.

I really appreciate your desire to help me solve this problem.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 19, 2014 at 6:51:33 am

Sorry it took so long. It's finals week here in Oregon...

Here are screenshots of each screen I go through before rendering.

The main render list, from which I select the video output:


Customizing the video output:


The "audio" tab in the video output customization:


Selecting the audio output (it will not let me customize):


I believe I have followed the instructions you gave me, but when I render with these, DVD Architect Studio will not accept SOMETHING.

I am beginning to think it is just the audio that is the problem. I watched DVD Architect Studio render to "prepare" for burning (like watching paint dry...) last time, and it got all the way through the video just fine. But it immediately gave me the "unsupported format" error once it tried to start rendering the audio.

I have tried every possible audio output Vegas has to offer, and none work...

Is there something I need to customize within the audio settings? I don't really know anything about bitrates. But it seems like it just doesn't like any audio filetype whatsoever. No idea what to do.

Thanks for your help.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 19, 2014 at 1:46:48 pm

You're doing everything the way it's supposed to be done so I can't imagine any reason for your render to be failing.
Try changing the name of your final render and render everything to a new folder. I've seen it happen where Vegas and DVDA get very confused and sometimes this will help.
Have you tried reinstalling DVDA yet?


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 19, 2014 at 5:30:32 pm

No, I have not. I will try that, if I can find the disc it came on. Is the installation for that on the same CD as the installation for Vegas? Because I don't see a separate installation disc for DVD Architect Studio in the box Vegas came in.

Thanks.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 19, 2014 at 5:37:01 pm

There's no need to find your original disc. You can download the latest build of it on the Vegas family updates page
You may need to log in to this page but it's been so long since I've done this that I honestly can't remember.


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 19, 2014 at 5:37:58 pm

Alright, I'll let you know. Thanks!

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 19, 2014 at 5:41:27 pm
Last Edited By Mike Kujbida on Mar 19, 2014 at 5:42:27 pm

I forgot to mention that you may need your serial number when you're doing this. All this information is on your Sony My Account - My Software page. You will need to log into to this page so hopefully you remember your username and password :)


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 19, 2014 at 9:40:01 pm

Re-installed and burning now. We'll see what happens...

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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James Strecker
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 19, 2014 at 11:14:17 pm

It worked! Thanks so much! That's a very dumb solution, haha. But good to know, I guess.

James Strecker
JTS Entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/JTSEntertainment


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Mike Kujbida
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 20, 2014 at 2:10:28 am

Houston, we have lift off!!
Glad to hear that things are finally working as expected.
Reinstall is a last resort but something that has to be done when all other suggestions fail.


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Dave Osbun
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 16, 2014 at 2:47:03 pm

I have to give a GIANT thumbs up for the assistance that Mike is giving to the OP. To actulky request source footage so he could use his expertise to find the best solution is really something.

I raise my glass to Mike,
Dave


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Bob Peterson
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 15, 2014 at 4:48:53 pm

To ease the pain while you are trying things to find an approach which works, I suggest that you obtain and use a RW DVD. I use them all the time while I an fine tuning a video, and it saves a ton of money for wasted DVD blanks. I also suggest a search on the forum for software which will tell you, assuming that your version of Vegas supports this, the maximum bit rate you can safely use to render your video and burn it to a DVD. I use BITCALC which is discussed on the forum.


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john bolton
Re: DVD burning going ridiculously bad...
on Mar 17, 2014 at 8:37:40 am

Have you tried to just make the VIDEO without the Audio to work out which part is causing the problem?.. If the Video burns OK then remove the video from the time line and replace the video with just a still picture for the whole length of the audio and try again.... As the others are saying you have to find out what it is NOT to be able to find out what it is.... . And yes..always use a DVD-RW when having to find problems..Hope you get it sorted soon...


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